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That seems fairly reasonable. No one should have to put up with noisy neighbours stomping around all night or throwing house parties packing like sardines into overcrowded flats like it's a bus in India or constantly emitted smells of dogshit, weed and extra smelly south asian food or be harassed for no reason or feel unsafe or otherwise disrupted in their own home or the surrounding infrastructure that they need to use as part of daily life like exits/entrances/walkways etc.
It's called the social contract.
Edit: If you wondered what the hell happened to the social contract and basic self-awareness, just look at the number of downvotes on this fairly uncontroversial take. These are the people who are blasting tiktoks on speaker on public transport and dumping garbage outside the bins.
one of these is not like the other...
Yeah you're right one of them is a smell some people can somehow stand because they live in it and it doesn't make it any more appropriate to emit despite whatever bizarre rationalisations the people emitting the smell have.
I'm sure your food stinks to people who aren't used to it. Why do you get to pass judgement on what's appropriate there? I'm not Asian and the only issue I have with it is that it makes me hungry.
I meant weed lol.
As for asian food, I think it's a very well known fact that asian food has a smell that lingers and carries far more than most other cuisines commonly encountered in the english-speaking world. I don't mind it so much but I think it is basic courtesy to be mindful of this and close the windows while cooking for at least a bit while cooking to avoid disrupting the neighbours and past a certain point it does become disruptive.
Here's my question, I'm not sure if it applies to you or is more general: Don't folks have any sense of privacy? Do they not feel a bit weird broadcasting what they're eating to the entire neighborhood? It's kinda like those crazies that play videos on speaker on transport. It never even crossed my mind since childhood to use headphones to not disrupt others - the primary motivation was always that randoms have no business knowing what I listen to.
"asian food" covers billions of people from hundreds of cultures across dozens of countries. I am not convinced that reducing to it in this way is especially productive.
Some ingredients do carry more than others, but like... garlic is one of them. Or bacon. No-one should feel like they need to take special measures to prevent people from smelling perfectly ordinary food, because to do so is an unreasonable imposition on day-to-day activities. Why should I have to keep my steamed-up windows closed so that someone walking by can be protected from the scourge of cumin?
There are super-stinky foods that this doesn't apply to, recognised even in the cultures which consume them as especially smelly and warranting special treatment, but "asian food" is way too broad to be that. And when it's imposed by one culture on another it starts to sound discriminatory to me.
No.
That's weird. It's definitely more important not to disturb people with what you're listening to. It's also much easier to keep the volume down with earphones than it is to keep smells confined, and much more disruptive - I never found it difficult to sleep or hold a conversation or concentrate because I could smell soy sauce.
What a weird hill to die on.
Of course if I'm cooking so much it steams up my windows (wtf are you cooking), I try to manage the smell because I should not impose a smell on my fellow man.
Do you not wear deodorant too, because BO encompasses billions of kinds of smells and because it's in your "culture"? Ew. Same thing for food.
Most importantly I do not want others to know what I'm eating. It's not information I choose to share because of a fundamental basic desire for privacy, for the same reason I wouldn't want others to hear the music in listening to, videos i'm watching, or read my thoughts or feel my emotions unless I chose to share it with them in the way I choose to share it (words of deliberate communication).
If I was going out of my way to eat something unusually super stinky and weird like garlic containing foods, or asian food, especially Indian & Chinese, where e.g. a letting agent once showed me a flat that was reduced rent because it smelled like instant ramen because someone ate it all the time there, I would be mindful of the smell it generates because to me the past resident will forever be "ramen guy" and in the unlikely event we ever met, I highly doubt that's how he wants to be known, and I certainly wouldn't want to be known as that or for any food I eat or information I don't deliberately share.
Yeah, so when asian food in the west is imposed upon westerners and other immigrants who are happy to integrate with western culture by immigrants who are not, it's a-okay, but me asking for reasonable adjustments is "oppression"?
Lol what the fuck. I never thought I'd be arguing for what feels like a right-wing viewpoint, but come on, surely you can see how this is absurd? When in Rome, do as the Romans do. To westerners - Asian food is stinky.
Maybe in an Asian country the whole place smells like that, maybe there they project smells because they don't have an expectation of privacy due to overloaded infrastructure and packed roads/streets/buses/trains forcing them to be packed like sardines.
I wouldn't know and I don't want to imagine or assume, I don't live there for a good reason and I don't want western countries and my neighborhood to smell like that too.
FYI: A survey in the UK found most asian takeaway is consumed by right-wing voters.
Then we can never understand each other. If you lack the fundamental desire for privacy, from which a "treat others as you'd like to be treated" idea easily follows, thinking that maybe you shouldn't be stinking up the street so everyone knows what you're eating at all times, then our differences are irreconcilable and I could not begin to imagine how to even communicate with you, it is simply inconceivable for me.
To me the absolute most basic point of a social contract is that you must in all ways possible minimize your presence, an ideal towards which you must strive is your neighbours not even knowing you exist, just as I do not want to know if they exist. Social connections are what apps are for.
Sadly due to poor infrastructure and housing quality this is seldom achievable, but it's the utopia we must reach for nonetheless, so we can all go about our lives without being disrupted and imposed on by others and stay out of each others way until one day when we can live without ever encountering or being forced into acknowledging the existence of another person at all - paradise. Maybe AI can help us get there.
lol enjoy your unseasoned boiled wheat, troll
Brits are using on average 250 cloves of garlic per year. If you genuinely think it's weird and are not making a weird troll attempt here, I'm afraid you're the weird one. I guess that's weird either way.
Demanding that everyone who comes to your country either stops cooking the food they grew up eating or keeps it a secret is not reasonable, and is oppressive. When I lived in a foreign country, I didn't stop cooking my home country's food; indeed, I shared it with my new friends in that country and we all enjoyed the experience. (No doubt this violation of my own privacy is strange to you...)
Most people in the UK are right wing by voting intention. What's your point with this?
Those two things are completely unconnected. Treat others as you'd like to be treated is a moral fundamental; it does not follow from a desire for privacy. A desire for privacy follows from a selfish (but entirely legitimate) desire not to suffer consequences for personal choices that don't affect others.
I don't want to be punched in the face, so I don't punch other people in the face. But there are no privacy implications of being punched in the face.
If someone looks over my shoulder at what's on my phone and sees I'm listening to Abba, that's an intrusion into my privacy, but the person hasn't suffered anything that I wouldn't wish on myself.
So as I said, these are completely separate, unrelated concepts.
This is extremely far from normal. We're social creatures.
I'm wondering if you're autistic - it would explain an aversion to strong sensory experiences like smelling garlic, and to social interactions that are normal to most others.
Isn't unseasoned grains boiled in water more of an asia thing, like rice?
But yet I've never heard a single Brit using so much garlic it stinks in the next apartment over, nor steams up their windows as you implied lol.
I did not make such a demand, I said manage any unusual smells you emit. You need to chill out, I eat my country of origin's food too, I just make sure that if it's smelly, like say sardines or something, I dont leave it out or make so much of it that it disturbs my neighbours.
Do you not understand the difference between friends and family - willing participants, and strangers, like random neighbours or passers-by on the street you don't own?
Because consent is everything, the former are willing participants, the latter are not.
Why do you want random strangers to know what you ate?
Hence the analogy, it's the same question as why would you want others to know what you're watching by blasting video on speaker on the bus?
Yeah newsflash dumbass, I also share my country of origin's food with my friends and family and they also love it. I'm not so sure my neighbours or random strangers would love it if I threw it in their face or made the neighborhood smell like it.
My point is that you accused me of oppression by demanding you hide your culture, a right-wing viewpoint which I did not state and do not advocate for.
I do support diversity - a left-wing viewpoint - but I also support courtesy, and in this instance the two are seemingly at odds, and I'm forced to pick and defend the courtesy.
I've seen people in the past assume that my dislike of some asian food is indication of right-wing beliefs. I linked the survey that suggests - statistically it is not so.
While yes, to an extent this is just a survey of popularity of takeaways generally, that explanation doesn't account for the entire difference nor the variance between choices. If it was just a popularity of takeaways contest or general popularity of the political parties, all of the bar charts would have the same order.
It doesn't account for the variance in order, e.g. Labour is currently second in voting intention, but on the chippy graph it is third, after Tories, and first on the pizza graph.
Idk, for me fundamentally treating others as you'd like to be treated is about the social contract of tolerance - which is about not bothering anyone for their innate characteristics, to me if you follow the line of thought then "bother" can be defined as disruption and interference on top of outright obvious discrimination, and that includes emitting uncontrolled amounts of disruptive smells on unconsenting unsuspecting others.
It is less severe than punching someone in the face, or being punched in the face, but it is not categorically different, if that makes sense.
You've got it the wrong way around:
If I look over your shoulder at what's on your phone, and see you listen to Abba, I'm intruding your privacy.
I shouldn't do this, because I don't want for you to look over my shoulder and see that I'm listening to Electric Light Orchestra's underrated album "Time" and looking kinda sad when "Ticket to the Moon" comes on.
If you do so accidentally, on say packed public transport, it's okay, but we as a society should strive to eliminate this sort of overcrowding, IMO.
It's the same as me being forced to smell your BO. I do not want it. I do not consent to it. Wear deodorant, and I will as well.
Basic stuff, frankly.
No. They are intrinsically connected, as I said.
Both are ultimately stemming from a desire to be left alone.
This is a bioessentialist broad generalisation that doesn't hold true when you consider how many people hate places that have many people.
I'd even go as far as to say that maybe we are social creatures in a world of like 4 million humans, not 8 billion humans.
You don't know me or know anything about me, you either misunderstood what I wrote - like you implying I'm telling you to hide your culture when I said nothing of the sort.
Or:
We have a fundamental disconnect that we cannot reconcile - like you implying that strangers and friends are even remotely comparable.
Notice how I never accused you of engaging in bad faith, being a troll or attempted to diagnose you with mental illness.
I don't make assumptions of bad faith about random internet strangers and I'd appreciate it if you did the same, thanks.
It sounds like you are not, in fact, constructing "don't be horrible to people" as an imperative following from privacy, after all. Privacy is fundamentally about ensuring that other people cannot know what I'm doing, even if they want to. What we are talking about is ensuring that other people do not sense what I am doing because they may not want to. A violation of the former case harms me, but a violation of the latter case harms them. You're right to pick up on the consent of the stranger looking over my shoulder; the consent of the person sensing the impact is irrelevant in the case of privacy, but it is everything in the case of "don't bother other people." So let's come back to your analogy:
I don't care if random strangers know what I ate. And as a privacy matter, that's the end of it. Privacy concerns don't exist if the person whose information it is consents to its release. I may care if they know what I'm listening to, because I think they'd be more likely to judge me for what I'm listening to. But if I agree to them finding that out, it's not a privacy concern at all. To extend the privacy argument: what business is it of yours why I want other people to know what I'm listening to? That's not what you're really concerned by. Really, you're concerned with me annoying random strangers. And my consent to annoying strangers is irrelevant; it's them who are being annoyed, they who must consent.
The reason I interpret what you're saying as discriminatory is because, as I already referred to, there are situations where it is not practical to keep your cooking smells hermetically sealed inside your own dwelling. Steaming up the windows is not a matter of how much garlic you're cooking, but how much water vapour is getting emitted from what you're cooking and how well ventilated the kitchen is - and any ventilation to let the humid air out lets out the smell of what you're cooking as well.
I don't disagree that there is a general principle that we shouldn't cause other people to smell stuff, but this principle is incompatible with other principles, such as keeping a comfortable level of humidity and eating where it's convenient (such as in public). The principle of don't-make-people-smell-stuff should rightly be considered to be very far down the list of principles' priorities when deciding which principle wins out, because causing someone to smell garlic is just not a big deal. It's not a foul smell (like fart gas) so it doesn't cause a big impact. In contrast, having to bottle up humid cooking air inside your home makes it uncomfortable and is a bigger impact. All of these principles should also be tempered by a fundamental societal determination of how reasonable activities are: cooking is something that basically everyone does, and garlic is an ingredient that basically everyone uses. In contrast, running a home chemistry set and synthesising fart gas is not something that basically everyone does; you could pick a different chemical to synthesise and get a similar enjoyment or, if you really want to synthesise fart gas, you can jump through some hoops to make sure the smell doesn't escape.
So let's stack it up:
Looking to restrict the release of cooking smells is therefore unreasonable. Doing so on the basis of "asian food is smelly" is therefore an unreasonable restriction that most severely impacts Asian people, which is discriminatory.
My illustration about my own experience is not supposed to be an exact allegory for the situation we're talking about but it is supposed to illustrate that generally people are far more receptive to culinary multiculturalism than you seem to be.
What if we stack up playing music from phone speakers:
So I think it's a useful comparison and illustrates how the two activities should have different expectations.
It could well be, but we're talking principles here like, "you should be invisible to your neighbours." If your principle is contradicted by a broadly true generalisation that we're social creatures, then it's a bad principle and you should get rid of it. And consider that maybe it's not a general principle, but rather your own preference not to talk to interact.
I assumed bad faith because I have never heard anyone calling garlic a "weird" ingredient before and still don't believe you think that. And I'm not trying to "diagnose you with mental illness"; I asked if you're autistic because it would give some useful context to your perspective for both of us. I'm not going to tell you that you are if you don't believe yourself to be.
It's universal. Rice, yes, but also noodles, pasta, various kinds of dumpling like Grießknödel, and semolina pudding. The list goes on.
you're wasting your time with this chud.
https://lemmy.world/post/37068481/19850709
they're bragging about the 'offensive odor' being evicted. they went and made a big fucking deal about someone making dinner, and had them tossed from their home. and they're gleeful about it.
Ever since weed was legalized in my area, downtown has been an array of weed smells on every other street. It's quite upsetting. Idk how it's even possible for it to linger in open air in a way that cigarettes don't.
I don’t think it’s about lingering, I think there are just a lot more joints than cigarettes on fire at any given time.
It could be, but it seems to linger longer...
Yeah, it sucks.
I have nothing against weed, I smoked multiple times daily myself a few years ago and while I wouldn't recommend it, I think it's fine, just easy to meme on.
But, the smell is unreal. Wtf, just use a bong? Do we really need a law to make this a fineable offense?
Apparently we do.
It's also pretty standard shit for an apartment lease.
I mean, they call out a breed of dog for no reason.
I had an insanely violent vizsla living near me that always tried to attack me. Did that not count? Does it only count if it's a breed that Trumpers hate?
lol
god forbid people season their fucking food. all foodstuffs must be boiled until grey and served with ketchup right?
jfc
Most food is seasoned.
Most food doesn't stink half as much.
I'm not saying Asian food is bad.
I'm not saying don't eat it.
What I'm saying is: be mindful of others and don't impose smells on unsuspecting people who are unfortunate enough to be there.
You wear deodorant, don't you? Because you don't want others to know you are sweaty, and you wouldn't want to smell others' sweat, would you? So you mask BO with deodorant. Especially if you're particularly sweaty, such as after work or a workout.
So why not do so for extraordinarily stinky food?
lol, I live in the PNW. we had a chill summer - barely a few weeks above 23c. I actually don't wear deodorant 99% of the time, but do use aftershave.
when I get sweaty I go home and shower. it's not a problem.
what are we talking about here? like durian stinky?
because I just suspect your definition of stinky is different, but it could be corpse flower flambe.
Perhaps it's time to get to know the neighbors.
I live in the UK, average temp where I live is 5c, given the windchill and ~80% humidity most days, it's cold as shit.
I also don't produce as much BO even when I do sweat, due to maintaining fairly low estrogen levels intentionally for other reasons.
I wear deodorant every single day, and perfume (lush body spray though, normal perfumes stink).
Unless they eat a corpse at 6pm every Thursday and Saturday or so, almost like some sort of smelly clock system, I doubt it.
We are not the same.
aw poor stinky limey snowflake can't stand his neighbors cooking with funny smells.
you're a sad little shit, damned straight
Maybe, but at least I'm not the one getting evicted:)
you're having your neighbors evicted for cooking food that offends you?
What a silly, weak little person you must be. god what a lilly white snowflake you must be. SPICES!? FLAVOUR!? NAY I SAY, EVICT THESE PEASANTS I WILL NOT HAVE IT
how weak are you
Asian food. Oh, so you're racist?
What the fuck is your problem with Asian food?
Go microwave some squid at your office and see how well that goes down.
You mean like calamari? I didn't know Italy was in Asia. Anyway, no thanks, that would make it all rubbery.
The advice given isnt the issue. Its the attitude its all spoken in...
Stuff like "Free (unlike your late fee that you keep racking up)" for example
I like the tone actually. Hate landlords and yeah it's a bit nasty when you think of the social dynamics but honestly sometimes you just have to reach people, because the kinds of people who become an issue also don't tend to read the dry legal document that is their rental agreement, I guarantee you.
Its not about it being not dry. Its moreso that its the exact type of tone that would make me want to do the exact opposite of whatever it says.
You're not reading right. I said the legal document of a rental agreement is dry, and morons won't read it, so they have to have something more shouty and threatening shoved in their face, simplified and made emotional, like how you'd speak to a misbehaving animal, simple words, emphasis on the tone.
If you'd still want to do the opposite, you're just antisocial and probably the reason this was put up.
Having dealt with such antisocial behaviour before, it was a nightmare, I only wish it was legal to deliver such individuals to the hell in which I hope they burn for all eternity.
It reads like an attempt at joviality that comes off as condescending. College students see this shit all the time.
I’m an old fart. I know better than to try to be hip. I’m not, and never have been. I get along just fine.
Who cares. You softer than butter? You'll survive
Very few people have actually read the social contract, and fewer still have signed it.
Huh? Why the fuck would I care whether my neighbor includes a cousin? If the cousin is paying to stay there then I can see some legal issues but why would this have anything to do with me?
The rest I agree with. Don't want people bothering me.
There's no problem if the cousin is on the lease. That's the point.
I'm sorry, but that's weird.
Leases are weird?
The problem is only when the place is made for one person, e.g. a studio, and there is one official resident, but actually more unofficial residents that are on-paper guests, but de-facto stay there, and as such generate disruptive noise to the neighbours or overload some shared facilities.
The "cousin" example is just hyperbole for emphasis.
You wouldn't care, but their landlord would. Not sure why you brought up the cousin when the post you replied to didn't mention it.
Idgaf what the landlord cares about, landlords suck the life out of society, why don't they go suck a dick instead?
I don't either, but that's not relevant to the post you commented on at all. They said nothing about the cousin bit, only things that actually affect other people living in the area.