News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious biased sources will be removed at the mods’ discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted separately but not to the post body. Sources may be checked for reliability using Wikipedia, MBFC, AdFontes, GroundNews, etc.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source. Clickbait titles may be removed.
Posts which titles don’t match the source may be removed. If the site changed their headline, we may ask you to update the post title. Clickbait titles use hyperbolic language and do not accurately describe the article content. When necessary, post titles may be edited, clearly marked with [brackets], but may never be used to editorialize or comment on the content.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials, videos, blogs, press releases, or celebrity gossip will be allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis. Mods may use discretion to pre-approve videos or press releases from highly credible sources that provide unique, newsworthy content not available or possible in another format.
7. No duplicate posts.
If an article has already been posted, it will be removed. Different articles reporting on the same subject are permitted. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners or news aggregators.
All posts must link to original article sources. You may include archival links in the post description. News aggregators such as Yahoo, Google, Hacker News, etc. should be avoided in favor of the original source link. Newswire services such as AP, Reuters, or AFP, are frequently republished and may be shared from other credible sources.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
You are right it's a critical industry to China, not only security, but also commercial because USA is blocking China from commercial use too.
China claim to be able to make 7nm now, if that's true they are 7 years behind.
They also claim they will be able to make 5nm next year, if that's true they are catching up.
China is forced to develop their own technologies, and if they can make EUV within a few years, there is practically nothing stopping them from catching up and maybe even surpass ASML/TSMC.
That is interesting. It is important to note that these claims are kind of arbitrary. 7nm doesn't really mean anything because they can measure any feature and say that. What would be more important is seeing the IPC per core. Moving beyond 7nm is also extremely difficult but even getting to 7nm is extremely impressive. This will probably actually just end up helping us as the consumer tbh because chips are so expensive right now, since basically a handful of companies control the market.
That is true, but even Intel has adjusted to use numbers that reflect similar processes to TSMC, and Samsung does too.
I have no doubt SMIC (China) could be exaggerating a bit, Intel does that too. But I'm sure this is supposed to be comparable to Intel/Samsung/TSMC.
Yes, that's why the claim of 5nm is extremely interesting, that's almost impossible without EUV.
But we don't know enough yet, for instance error rate/yields are very important too. Without acceptable error rates, they can only make small dies, which complicate complex designs for demanding tasks, as they have to be spread among more dies.
Something AMD mastered with Ryzen, maybe in part because they were limited to Global Foundries (inferior production process to Intel at the time) when they designed the Ryzen chip, and they managed to turn a disadvantage in production into an advantage in design, using chiplets that worked extremely well together.
Also power consumption is important, because without lower power consumption reducing the scale of production is near meaningless.
That's the design side of the problem, and IDK where China is at regarding efficient AI chip design, but they did manage to make the worlds fastest super computer based on very good design a few years back. As I see it, design will be the lesser problem for China on chip production, because many companies have been working on their own design for years now. Even Xiaomi have their own AI design in their new chips, and those chips are very good from what I hear.
I agree, if the alternative is near monopoly by Nvidia and TSMC, I have no doubt that not only China but also the rest of the world will benefit too.
Nice info, thanks. I'm going to look up IPC comparisons if I can.