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25+ million Soviet people died in the struggle against fascism, resulting in 80% of the total Nazi casualties being in the eastern front. Please don't insult the memory of the heroes who died saving Europe from fascism.
Also, I'm a Spaniard. Anarchists in Spain organized and fought fascism in the Spanish civil war, with Soviet assistance too back in 1936-1939. If you're not sure who fought fascism, I urge you to educate yourself in communist/anarchist movements.
I'm not trying to minimize anything here. The Soviet Union had a non-aggression pact with Germany and they didn't "fight against fascism" until Germany invaded. Meaning "there being Nazis" wasn't the trigger of that fighting, it was "Germany invaded us". But then sure, it was "fighting against fascism" because it was "fascists" invading. But it could have been anyone invading.
It's a subtle distinction I'm making.
This is fair - I was thinking mostly of the main Axis/Allies conflict. I'm also over-simplifying a bit in that I'm focusing mostly on leadership. I understand that there were grassroots efforts. And Spain definitely had its own fascism problem where the people did fight directly against fascism.
Though as an aside: I can think of no more of an obnoxious phrase than "educate yourself". 🙄
Did you not read my comment? I specifically mentioned the Soviets being the only country in the world that meaningfully helped the antifascists in Spain with weapons, tanks, artillery and aviation, back in 1936, 3 years before the start of WW2 while all of western Europe was doing appeasement with the Nazis and "non-intervention" against fascism in my homeland.
Before the start of the war, the Soviets were famously trying to urge all of Europe against Fascism and in particular against Nazi Germany through mutual defense agreements. They signed one with Czechoslovakia together with France, which France refused to honour (see Munich Betrayal), which, and I quote Wikipedia: "The Soviet Union announced its willingness to come to Czechoslovakia's assistance, provided the Red Army would be able to cross Polish and Romanian territory; both countries refused.", again back in 1938, before any Fascist invasion of the Soviets. Furthermore, the USSR under the Litvinov doctrine sought after mutual defense agreements with Poland, France and England, to the point of offering to send ONE MILLION SOLDIERS to France (Archive mirror to bypass paywall) together with tanks, aviation and artillery to France on exchange for a mutual defense agreement, which France declined.
Looking into Soviet interwar policy, it's patently obvious that they were the strongest antifascist formation in Europe except possibly for the Spanish republicans during the Spanish civil war.
My point stands though. Fascism was fought predominantly by Communist and Anarchist leadership. China against fascist Japan, Cuban revolutionaries against fascist dictator Batista, Spanish Republican government in the Spanish civil war... Whereas it was capitalist countries funding fascist coups all over the world such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile against socialdemocrat Allende, the Iranian coup against socialist-aligned Mosaddeq...
Yes I did - and you're making excellent points - don't do this though. You want to harden somebody against you? You say shit like this.
I'll accept your argument.
Yeah, you're actually right. Sorry for being a smug ass, I guess I'm sensitive about this part of history which is heavily misunderstood and propagandized against socialists like me, but you're right and I'll try to be more chill about it. Thanks for the chat
I hear ya. I have actually been to Spain BTW (and no, not just Barcelona) and it's a beautiful country with a rich history. We certainly don't learn much about Spain in the US (beyond "age of sail" type stuff) so your sensitivity is rather justified. What I learned there about the civil war, Franco, etc. was eye-opening. But seems I could use a refresher. ;-)
The Soviet Union invaded Poland and Finland. It was an expansionist imperialist power itself.
They had a blatant disregard for the lives of their own people before WW2 even started as well as afterwards. Sacrificing the masses was state policy.
The Soviet Union invaded the famously Polish cities of looks map... Lviv (6th largest city in modern Ukraine), Pinsk (10th largest city in modern Belarus) and Vilnius (capital of Lithuania)? Most of the territories invaded by the Soviets in "Poland" were actually Ukrainian, Belarusian and Lithuanian territories that had been invaded by Poland in their 1919 expansionist war against Ukraine. Or are you a Ukrainophobe saying that Lviv belongs to Poland?
For reference: Poland in 1938
And a map of the territories the Soviets invaded:
The USSR had a blatant disregard for the lives of their own people before WW2, which explains why life expectancy looks at chart ...increased from 30ish years old to 40+?
Your own map shows Lviv/Lwow to be a Polish city.
Russian maps from 2015 show Crimea to be Russian, do you agree it's a Russian city? My entire point is that Lviv, one of the most important cities in Ukraine, was invaded by Poland in 1919. Soviets "invading" it in 1939 effectively meant returning it to Ukraine.
What do you think about Russia Ukraine in today's context? Thanks
Unfortunately, both of them suffered the illegal and antidemocratic dissolution of the USSR, which led to the greatest humanitarian crisis and loss of life in Europe since WW2, with scholars such as Paul Cockshott estimating the deaths in more than 5 million after demographic analysis of the region, with Ukraine being hit especially hard due to becoming the poorest country in Europe after the dismantling of its entire economy in the 90s. Unemployment, depression, alcoholism, homelessness, drug addiction, violent crime, mental health problems and even hunger and preventable disease turned the 90s and early 2000s into some of the worst that Europe has seen in more than half a century, and I therefore condemn the capitalist government of both countries extensively for all the damage they're doing to their own populations.
So what was that holodomor thing about, harmless right? Great leap forward also awesome did not kill anyone. Good talk man...
"Holodomor" is just a scary word to refer to the 1931-1933 Soviet famine. Do you also use special scary words to describe capitalist-driven famines such as the Bengal Famine that the British created in India, or is it a privilege only reserved for the last serious non-war-made famine in the USSR?
Famines, believe it or not, were commonplace in preindustrial Russian Empire, which had a terribly low life expectancy. Between 1917 (Bolshevik revolution) and 1941 (Soviet Union entering WW2) life expectancy rose from 30 years to about 41. The Socialist project in Eastern Europe made some mistakes, such as errors in the collectivization of 1929-1934 during the first 5-year plan that led to unexpected sabotage and failed crops, but ultimately these mistakes were more than compensated for through social policy, universal healthcare and education, and probably most importantly, enabling the industrialization of the Soviet Union that allowed for the mechanization of agriculture and the end of famines (which by itself saved millions of lives) and the win against the Nazis 10 years afterwards (which by itself saved tens of millions of lives from the planned genocide against the slavic peoples by the Nazis according to the Generalplan Ost. The Soviet project saved tens if not millions of lives from hunger, disease, exploitation, and worst of all, colonisation and extermination by Nazis.
No I am not defending some genocide that any non-communist nation has ever been responsible for. That's how you seem to define capitalist driven. Check your cognitive biases there. I do not defend the British empire nor the Roman empire, nor the Ottoman empire nor the third Reich.
About the dissolution of the USSR who's fault is it that it happened how it did? How much mismanagement and corruption is inherent within the communist system? Modern day examples are pretty high on the corruption index.
They mechanized and industrialized plus had health care. The rest of the world did that too.
The times you are citing are also the most totalitarian under Stalin. With lots of purges etc. so not substantially better than living under the nazis. If you are starving, you are starving.