this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2025
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[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 139 points 2 days ago (3 children)

She tried to pivot to others in the party...

[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 158 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 105 points 2 days ago (5 children)

It's still fucked considering she was better in every way compared to the other option. That said, yes she has zero charisma and authenticity. Her entire platform is consultancy-crafted buzzwords and ambiguity.

[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 65 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It was exceedingly obvious 2024 was a populist election, and she let Trump take that mantle and run with it. Bernie would have mopped the floor with these corporatists. This is why Mamdani is ascendant.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Talarico's messaging would probably be perfect for this. Progressive message packaged in religious dogma.

However, given the control billionaires have over media and the what they see, I can't confidently say anyone could win in that uneven playing-field.

Literally anyone. ANY average person should've been able to beat the monster that is Trump. That we couldn't isn't proof Harris sucked (in fairness, she was pretty poor); it's proof the rich wield all the megaphones.

[–] jaycifer@lemmy.world -5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Corporatists? Are you looking for the word corpocrats or corporatocrats?

Edit: corporatocracy is a government ran by corporate business interests, such as we see in the US.

Corporatism is a governance principle that government is a meeting ground for “corporate groups” to make decisions. Corporate groups represent a group of people, typically business leaders but also unions.

In a fascist corporatist state like Mussolini’s Italy this meant keeping business and union leaders close to keep a close eye on them for greater control. In a social corporatist state like Sweden, this means those same leaders have a legally mandated place in the government to get the benefits of capitalist growth tempered by the demands of common workers to receive a fair share of that growth and ensure safe working/living conditions.

I don’t think the powers that be in the US want unions anywhere close to the government, so I don’t think corporatist is the right term.

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Please donate to Harris, it's the only way to win."

That's the only message I got from her. Lots of talk around other messages but the one they hammered home in all their canvassing, sms and such was MONEY.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I mean yeah. I canvassed for Harris and when targeting swing-voters and Republicans, this obviously was not the messaging.

When targeting those who actually voted for Democrats historically, of course they're going to think, "This person is aware of what is at stake and that Harris is objectively better in every way. So we need to get money for the war chest because the opposition has more billionaires, Russia, and Israel backing him."

I saw messages like that, too, and went, "Yep take my money. Defeat this fucking fascist."

[–] nuggie_ss@lemmings.world 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, those few citizens not buying their bullshit can make all the difference.

It's why we should focus all of our efforts on making sure people like her never become the nominee, because that's essentially handing the presidency to the republicans.

Nominating hillary fucking clinton in 2016 over Bernie Sanders was bonkers. I don't think the nation will ever recover from that blunder, and we still don't put the blame where it belongs.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yep, agreed.

Although I think we also need to take a step further back and wonder how the fuck we could get to the point where Trump was a viable option in the first place. In essence, that really is the bigger issue at hand. Not that Harris wasn't good enough; but that Trump was perceived as somehow being better by vast swaths of the electorate. That is deeply fucked. Naturally, we know this has to deal with wealth inequality and who controls the media. far-right white billionaires.

Going forward it's my hope that we see more of the likes of AOC and Talarico. They are clearly the future of this party. Progressive messaging meets wit and charisma and authenticity.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

False binary.

One of the other options was a fair open primary.

[–] HalfSalesman@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That is Biden's fault not Harris's.

I'd add the DNC leadership to the blame.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If Biden had dropped out earlier or decided not to run, absolutely.

But there was no way to run a 50 state primary before the election with 100 days to go.

Democrats would still be arguing over a venue at this point.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

But there was no way to run a 50 state primary before the election with 100 days to go.

I don't buy that excuse. They didn't want to. Every other country in the world can organise a full election in under 100 days.

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago

A short campaign was likely a benefit, quite frankly, considering how badly it was run.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The problem isn't one election, the problem is running 50 individual elections, when certain states fight each other over who gets to go first.

In 2020, the first primary was February 3rd and the final one wasn't until August 11th. Six months. Just for the primary. 190 days.

Harris had 107. AND still had to run a campaign for the general too. So, no. There was no time for a proper primary, not unless Biden dropped out in 2023.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The problem isn't one election, the problem is running 50 individual elections

Not attacking you personally, but again this smells like a bullshit excuse. More people voted in America idol than in the primary and they have no problem.

Actually, I made that last statistic up, but it feels right. The point is that in 2025 there is no excuse.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Oh, more people DEFINITELY voted in American Idol. 😉 But US elections have more restrictions and security as well and protections against double voting and so on. You can't vote by phone or online in a US election either, that's illegal.

So, 107 days to run both a primary in 50 states AND a general election.

Candidates have to announce, prepare platforms, and debate. Ballots have to be printed and mailed for mail in voting states, after the election it can take a week to verify and certify. And THEN, whoever wins, still has to compete in the general election with zero time to prep, debate, etc. 107 days was not enough time.

This is why I say, yes, if Biden dropped out in 2023, by all means, lets have a proper primary.

At which point the DNC would have put their thumb on the scale as they did in 2020 and 2016 and we get Harris anyway.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Can only do that if Biden chose to step down; by the time Biden actually dropped out there wasn't feasible time.

This is why I easily blame Biden and his yes-men for about 80% of the loss or more.

And in the end, it wasn't a false dichotomy; it was binary when people opted to vote or not.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No no. The rule that being president means you run for your second term unopposed in your party is also bullshit.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

But there was a 2024 Democratic Primaries, and Biden won?

Incumbents have a massive advantage by default, and it was very hard for anyone to challenge that. Biden had to commit to being a 1-term President and step down.

I still blame Biden for 80% or more.

[–] veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'd hope its just major stockholm syndrome at this point. Like she doesn't see that the democrats as the Hindenburg at this point...

They probably all still think its identity politics while the rest of the world sees it as "fuck the corporatist establishment, if we aren't going to get any recognition, might as well burn it down with populism"

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 15 points 2 days ago

Just the worst possible instincts.

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Holy shit it's (cops are objects not people) doing the literal bare minimum to technically undermine the specific wording of one criticism. Holy shit.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I domt get this, can you explain

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It (Harris) is technically backing mamdani in the least backing least him way possible, while holding her nose and making her disapproval of him very obvious. The bare minimum for making it so that technically one democrat I've heard of–other than DINO's like sanders– has backed him so we can't truthfully make the sweeping dramatic statement that "no major democrat has endorsed zohran mamdani.

It is technically an endorsement, but only technically.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

what was the "cops are objects" comment? Was this something that kamala harris said

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

No. It was a prosecutor–which is a kind of cop.

It has not apologized condemned or made amends for its past behavior–therefore it is still a cop.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I loathe harris but calling her "it" is pretty douchey. Why do that? Why attack her gender? Did her gender in particular do something to you?

[–] dogbert@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

It’s literally a PIG…

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus -3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

It's a cop. Cops aren't people. Thus 'it'.

We do not typically gender objects in English.

In Spanish or French I would use the feminine singular form of whatever the fuck I was calling it. I am not speaking Spanish or French. I am speaking English. So I use 'it'.

Edit: I'm informed there is a specific term for female pig, 'sow'–which would also be correct but that has some misogynist connotations, and the correct pronoun remains 'it'.

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You may not be trying to misgender Harris, but using object pronouns as if they're an inherently bad thing is pretty insensitive to those who use it/its pronouns

Also, dehumanizing the enemy is pretty slippery rhetoric. You can admit/accept that they're people while advocating for violence against them regardless

[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It's not inherently bad. There are plenty of objects ive been very fond of over the years. None of them were cops, but, you know, stuffed animals, buildings, a pot that I bought in a shopping trip with someone I loved but had a really complicated relationship with and cooked a lot of meals with over the years. All properly 'it's, though i admit some of the stuffed animals did get gendered; I was a small child.

A cop is not a person. It can't be (safely) talked with, can't communicate honestly, does not have human compassion, does not self reflect, does not have capacity for critical thought in any way that matters. In both practical and philosophical terms–cops are missing some important parts of 'person'.

Some of the people who kill me in the water wars in a few years might be people(but who the fuck knows at this point). And I bet I'll want to kill them (for their water). The tankies who try to murder me if we pull off a revolution will probably be people (if its still soon enough that they don't have the cops do it). Cops are not people–if they were, they wouldn't be cops.

[–] Hominine@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A cutting and insightful critique that makes all of our ideas better. Thank you.

[–] Signtist@bookwyr.me 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Cops aren't people. I will not talk about a cop in such a way as to leave a reader with the impression it's a person–you can do that inclusive of gender in many languages. English is not one of them.

Unless you mean English. Then yes–absolutely weapon of the enemy, but I don't speak anything else well enough to get by.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you've lost me again (not an american)

[–] TallonMetroid@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

He's saying that she's not a person because cops don't deserve to be considered people.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Oh!

it’s (cops are objects not people)

"It" being Harris, and the parenthesis part being the posters sentiment, not Harris's

I thought Harris had at some point said that cops were not people, which would be an amazing thing for her to say.

Sorry, I get it now

Correct. 'It' referring to Harris and an explanation of why I'm not talking like it's a person (because it is not).

Its supporters have not said cool things. Maybe ever. When talking, they mostly just blame 'tankies' and other people whose loyalty their masters were entitled to not voting for their defeat in the last election. Very loudly and vitriolically, in a way sure to build strong coalitions in the future. There's a chance they're all bots. Nobody actually liked it.