UPDATE - THERE IS NO UPDATE.
I've been seeing Jordan Lunds name on YePowerTrippingBastards for ages but I'll be honest? I didn't really read any of the posts. To those who know me, I generally stay within the meme area or over in my Star Trek corner getting angry over dumb shit. I am a known asshole and plenty of people do not like me so when it comes to general threads talking about people, I don't often care. But then I started seeing his name pop up as a reason to not go to either Lemmy.world or Lemmy as a whole because the moderation here was so extreme. Now I've done deep dives in the past where I drew up a metric ton of evidence against Startrek.Website and ValueSubtracted/Corgana for actively abusing their users, harassing people across multiple websites, driving misinformation and lying/gaslighting about everything under the sun. Check this first post or this post as examples of both of them being horrible people but also of the type of shit that I do.
So when I saw these accusations I figured let's look into it. The problem was that a significant portion of posts about Jordan are really heavily biased. All of them are from people who had active interactions with him and had a "dog in the fight". Me? The only times I've ever talked to him have been in passing, casual conversation either in lemmy comments or on Discord servers. I have probably had comments removed from /c/world and /c/news in the past, I vaguely recall that happening, but I also remember being fine with it. I get heated so whatever.
Every post and comment that I saw on here were from people who were worked up. Either he had pissed them off or vice versa or both. This does not mean that the posts aren't based in reality or a lie. But it does mean that it is easier for someone to dismiss as just being trolls, something that I have actually seen happen with concerns from this community in the past. Not particularly for Jordan (although, yes, for Jordan) but just in general. Whether that be from other users, other mods or other admins the reaction can be the same. But I have no such connection. So let me lay out a variety of behaviors that not only demonstrate that Jordan is unfit to moderate any community, but that he's a danger not just to the communities he moderates, not just lemmy.world, but the entirety of Lemmy as a whole. This man is doing generational damage to Lemmy that I've not seen any other user do.
Before I kick all this off, I just want to say that I have only been looking into this for about 6-7 hours. This is by no means comprehensive. There are going to be things left out because I'm simply not going to be aware of all of it. If you'd like to add more context or clarification, please be calm and clear about it and add any evidence to the comment section. Also want to say that I don't want to type Jordan out constantly so I'm just going to say JL. Lemmy.world is also going to be shortened to LW. A few others might pop up. I'm just fucking lazy.
The job of a moderator is to apply the rules in an unbiased fashion. To read the rules, interpret them if needed and then carry them out. Personal influence is not supposed to be a part of it. You're supposed to treat it like a position of authority and respect, to respect the position and not abuse it. Now, I am 100% guilty of this in the past (Search my name on here) but it's also one of the reasons why I stepped down as a mod of the majority of communities and why the few ones I still have are treated far more lightly. I turned into what I hate and that's completely on me. I realized I was turning into a terrible person and left. Jordan has not had this realization despite numerous people pointing this out to him. Instead he will say stuff like:
or ones like this:
Now, let's temporarily ignore the fact that he went into YPTP to actively antagonize and harass multiple users, we'll get back to that, just look alone at what this behavior is saying. He's saying that if you don't antagonize him then he won't antagonize you. That it is "fair fucking game" to increase harassment of a user if one harasses him. This is a repugnant and troll-like mindset at the best of times but in the hands of a moderator it is genuinely dangerous. Those two comments alone call into question every single removal or moderator action he has ever taken. He has demonstrated an inability to remain unbiased. That's all those comments are saying but they say an enormous amount.
But let us take a look at some of the actions he has taken, shall we?
A few months ago a Canadian used a Canadian term in referencing Canadian politics and a Canadian Government. Jordan Lund, an American, misunderstood what was being said. Instead of asking for clarification, the post was instantly removed with the logic of "Misinformation". Now, as a Canadian, the idea of an American telling a Canadian that they're misinformed about their own government isn't one that we as Canadians are typically fond of. Even less so when JL decided to double down and ignore anyone telling he was wrong. This is a running trend. Jordan is routinely faced with the real facts of the matter and not what he believes and every time he just leaves the conversation. When faced with irrevocable proof that he is wrong on any community that he is not a moderator of, he disengages. This is another demonstrable behavior that questions his abilities as a moderator. He is unwilling (or incapable) of admitting on being wrong.
"But Stamets, that's just one example!" Okay. Then how about months later when questioned on the literal exact same moment? @Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com called him out and again he dodged any responsibility. He ignored anyone proving him wrong and doubled down on his false understanding of reality. Not only is this woeful behavior for a mod but he's also the moderator of /c/World. With that behavior he has now categorically proven that /c/World is American-Centric to the point of rejecting any wording that isn't done in a way understandable by an ignorant American. Another moment that calls into question whether or not Jordan is capable of being impartial would be removing someones comment so they could continue the exact same argument with someone else.
But I did mention earlier that we'd get back to this so let us. Jordan has demonstrated time and time again that he looks for a fight, actively enjoys trolling, and wants to be as antagonistic as humanly possible. There are times he's summoned into YPTB with an @ but other times he isn't. Honestly I don't want to go through each and everyone of these showing that this is shitty, troll-like and antagonistic behavior. You should be able to tell yourself. The fact that the mod is going in and doubling down on being a dick is obscene. Clarifying the decision? Maybe. But actively fanning the flames and acting like twerp is pathetic and disqualifies him from the position of a mod of any community, nevermind flagship communites on lemmy.world. Here's another example of an entire thread showing he isn't fit. If you want more just look at his profile or search his name on basically any community.
Next we shall focus on him gaslighting and lying to or about everyone. Including the Admins of LW.
A few days ago, Jordan accused someone of being transphobic, homophobic, violent and racist on YePowerTrippingBastards. Both the person themselves as well as another user looked into those accusations. There were no demonstrations of that behavior. The user, @Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com, gave a pretty detailed response of how Jordan was lying and unfit for the job. I highly recommend checking that out for yourself. Jordan did not respond but Ganbat also said they were done talking to Jordan anyway. @princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone also looked into the accusations and couldn't find anything but could actually find things removed that were actively defending trans people. If anything, Ganbat was the dead opposite of transphobic. Norah being the one to point this out is also important as she's trans. Jordans instant response was to gaslight and deflect blame saying he was talking about someone else, not Ganbat. Odd that he did not say this to Ganbat. But this is something that was also instantly proven wrong as he directly referenced Ganbat. Norah also mentioned something that I'll get into in a moment. Jordan did not respond. But just to recap here, a cis white male just tried to weaponize transphobia against someone who was not transphobic for the sake of closing an argument and then tried to gaslight a trans woman about whether or not he just did that. Again, this discounts him from ever holding a position as a moderator.
Months ago on /c/World, Jordan Lund was talking about the media fact checking bot. He claimed that he would be removed if he removed the bot. That the moderators serve at pleasure of the Admins and they would just replace him. This is directly at odds with an Admin then immediately saying that it wasn't true.
This also demonstrates that he is not willing to take any criticism or pushback at all on things that he agrees with and would rather push that blame onto someone else to avoid it himself. Now how do I know he was actively for this? Because in the Discord channel when the bot was made and announced, Jordan was literally the first person to respond and say that he was down with this. Something I verified from two different sources and by seeing it with my own eyes.
Now, let us focus on something in that Discord server.
There have been comments floating about with screenshots saying that Jordan has access to a bot that has admin abilities. I can confirm this. I do not know whether he still has access to it but he did for at least a year. How do I know this? Because I did as well. When I originally ported over to LW, I had my own personal stalker who was following me around and harassing me. An admin who is no longer active gave me access to the bot to deal with this person. I cannot speak to the full abilities of the bot, especially as the development of the bot has switched to another admin/mod who I'm not friends with. But the bot when I had it was capable of banning a user (permanently or for a period of time) from the entirety of Lemmy.World as well as removing posts. This bot was designed specifically for spam and CSAM as we're talking like a year and a half to two years ago. CSAM was still being slammed in waves and anti-lemmy spam from reddit was still coming in strong. Access to the bot was extremely limited and only given to users that were trusted to not abuse the bot and only use it for spam, CSAM or in the case of two people, harassment. I was one of those two people. Want to guess who the other was?
I did not pay much attention to the usage of the bot. I did not pay much attention to the discord server in general. But I can say that I saw Jordan use it at least once for a harassing user. I have no idea whether or not that was valid as I wasn't looking into it. At the time he was just a dude in the server who I occasionally chatted with. I knew nothing about him. But then again I'm an oblivious fool who didn't even know PugJesus existed until really recently. At the time I had no second thoughts about the usage of it. I only used it a handful of times, less than 5. Either for accounts that were self-admitted alts of my stalker or of CSAM when admins were not available. Because of that I didn't pay a ton of attention to the channel where the bot was being used but the most active user of the bot that I saw during that time was Jordan Lund.
All of this so far has just been actions of his that demonstrate that he's not fit. Now let's talk about who he is and let us start with him being a racist. This is a news article about him. The whole thing is essentially about how he as a white man is surprised to find out there are negative feelings about Portland. Negative feelings about Portland and Oregon being extremely white and racist.
Still, Lund said he doesn’t see much racism in his day-to-day life. He’s certainly never experienced it.
Right.
"I think Portland had a variety of problems. Race is definitely one of them, yes. But I don't know that we could classify it as the most important problem. if you look at the homeless situation, there's definitely an income inequality problem, a mental health problem. there are a whole lot of more pressing problems besides race."
Jordan? A lot of those are based on race. But this is just me nitpicking. The real problem is this.
And despite his politics, he struggles to find sympathy or kinship with the Black Lives Matter marchers who occasionally disrupt his commute home to protest police violence. "I do pay attention to them. I think primarily as somebody who works in downtown we tend to be aware of things like that more because of the disruption it causes. I don't think the disruption they do is particularly productive. It takes people who would ordinarily be on their side and go, why are they doing this to us? The Portland Police didn't shoot anybody recently that I’m aware of. If they want to be productive in their protests, they should go to where these events are happening."
This man was just met with the fact that his place is known for being racist and xenophobic and his first instinctual response was "Go protest elsewhere." Yeah... the call is coming from inside of the house Jordan. You're the racist that people are constantly talking about. Racism isn't just burning a cross. It's not just shooting up a black church. It can be quiet and insidious and you are actively helping further that by dismissing a right to protest so you can get somewhere faster. Moreover, a protest to make people aware of a problem with racism. A problem you only became aware of when someone hit you in the face with it because you keep ignoring it around you like with these protests. And if you're worried I'm taking him out of context with that article? I'm not. He reiterated it here in his own words.
Now let's move onto the fact that he's transphobic as fuck. He went to /c/Transgender and posted a Matt Walsh video. Then there's the whole thing earlier about him claiming someone else was transphobic who wasn't. Not only is that extremely offensive to the dude you claimed it of but also extremely offensive to every trans person in existence for you to claim that you know better than someone else. He's using the trans community for his own benefit but has not demonstrated anything that I've seen of support of that community. Just active hostility. Check his modlog for the record. There are some other interesting things in there like him stalking someone and spamming the same comment over and over again.
Next up? Zionism. He has repeatedly removed posts that are critical of Israel or pro-Palestinian and that's fairly well documented. Again, just searching his name and Zionist or anything on any community here gives you more than enough to look at. You do have to filter through it a bit because a lot of people are, justifiably, pissed as hell but it does mean that the language of the comments can seem inflammatory and trolling him. Something that he has leaned into quite heavily and used as a shield. But these two posts stand out to me as particularly obscene. One such example is his patented refusal to ever address proof to the contrary. He listed a source as being antisemitic while using the justification of a Zionist source. When given a litany of Israel critical cartoons but none that are actively antisemitic, he refused to engage. Honestly the entire post also demonstrates a shocking amount of logic that isn't outright Zionist but dancing around the edges and leaving the outline of one. Especially when he says that he'll allow the post of the slain journalist to be posted when he "starts writing for a reputable news source again. Of course when pressed, he gaslit again saying that it wasn't the person he was talking about when it clearly was.
Conclusion
The man is a genuine danger to Lemmy.world. I know plenty of people who refuse to engage with the communities on the instance as a whole because they do not trust the mods here. When questioned why it always ends up being Jordan or someone like FlyingSquid who was basically Jordan 2.0. There was so much shit happening behind the scenes with that dude with him actively torpedoing friendships left right and center. He started to crash out hard because no one was supporting him anymore. Yet people still support Jordan and I have no idea why. My only assumption is just his state of health. He's not in the best shape and the only thing I can think is that no one wanted to rock the boat with him to add extra stress on him going through something massive but doing that is also an enormous disservice to the people on Lemmy. And I do mean Lemmy as his behavior makes us all look bad. I've tried to get someone recently on reddit to move to Lemmy and their argument was that they will not because the mods here are worse than the mods on reddit. When I asked for an example, they linked me to Jordan. I even found a comment out in the wild saying to not join Lemmy because of Jordan and when I contacted them to ask if I could add their comment to this post they ended up deleting it and their whole account.
Jordan is incapable of sustaining impartiality, is incapable of accepting fault, is incapable of accepting any viewpoint different than his own, is incapable of learning anything new, is racist, is transphobic, supports Zionism and abuses his position at the drop of a hat. He does not meet the basic qualifications of a reddit moderator, never mind ones of a Lemmy user. The fact that he is the face of multiple enormous communities while routinely doing these things means that the entirety of Lemmy.world looks bad. But because Lemmy.world is also one of the biggest instances and one that often a lot of people end up falling to first, he also ends up being the face of All of Lemmy Moderation.
I'm actively calling for him to be removed from any and all moderator positions. He has proven time and time again for months that he is not capable of holding these positions in a way that treats the platform, the users and even himself with respect. Also going to say here and now that I'm seriously considering leaving Lemmy.world and going elsewhere and this is playing a big part in that. I post so much because I like adding to a community I enjoy being a part of. A community that I can be proud to be a part of.
I don't have much in the run of pride right now.
Edit: Jordan keeps violating the rules of this community while in this post. He has had 4 comments removed in the past 4 days. All of then are for transphobic behavior. The same behavior that someone else was guilty of that he accused of being Transphobic. Ergo, Jordan is undeniably transphobic and MUST BE REMOVED INSTANTLY. This has been 4 days guys. What is going on?
I am sort of of two minds about this. I really dislike this type of expansive witch hunt against some particular big name mod which is a frequent Lemmy occurrence (which for some reason always includes the accusation that they're a "Zionist" whether or not it is true). I've stuck up for JordanLund in the past. However, I will say that I think his judgement as a mod and style of interpersonal interaction on Lemmy is really bad. This list includes a bunch of pretty fair examples, you can actually see a brief conversation between me and him in one of them which goes about the way that a lot of conversations with him go. Thanks to Stamets for doing all the homework to dig up detailed examples and discuss them, it's clear you put a ton of sincere factual effort into putting this together.
I think a vital question is what the moderation on the big lemmy.world communities should look like. My impression is that there is some significant fuckery afoot (a distinct tendency to deliberately run cover for troll/propaganda accounts for example), and I don't really think Jordan is behind it, although there is a habit of shoving him to the front to take the blame for it when it happens. I feel like there's going to be kind of a shortage of people willing to go through the daily struggle and effort of being a mod of a super-busy community, which not only makes it hard for the mods to take time and patience to make great decisions 100% of the time, but also opens the door for people who are motivated to abuse the position and makes it harder to justify getting rid of them once they're in place.
Not that.
All of it? No. But a significant portion? Yes. Moreover, he's the face of a lot of this moderation and what other people are going to look for as a template.
Absolutely and wholeheartedly reject this concept. He brings himself into the threads and argues with everyone insisting that what he did was right. He both admits to his behavior and doubles down constantly.
So we should not remove an abusive moderator because good moderators are going to not want to join because they're going to worry about being kicked out but it somehow makes it easier for more abusive mods? That's effectively what you're arguing here and not a suggestion that holds any weight at all.
So what I'm talking about is things like setting it up so UniversalMonk gets to stay around for far longer than the community feels he should be, and then people are getting mod sanctions for getting in slapfights with him. That's a much bigger problem than just one mod being a dickhead in some kind of user interaction. My impression, and maybe I'm wrong, is that Jordan didn't set the policy in that case, he was just the face of putting it into practice. Honestly maybe I'm wrong in that. But I do feel like for a community of the size of lemmy.world, we should be able to find out specifically who is responsible for decisions like that, and be able to talk with them. Whether or not Jordan is around, there's still a massive problem in the moderation if decisions like that can kind of drift into codification silently, without anyone really being the one who decides to try to justify it.
You're saying that Jordan decided all on his own to step forward and justify it, which is on him, which is 100% fair also, and I agree on that score. Also, him being a dickhead in user interactions sometimes is still a problem, regardless of anything else that's going on.
(Honestly in general I just don't think that the "lords and peasants" model of moderators vs. ordinary users is a good one, I think a lot of issues like this are pretty inevitable under that model. I actually like Bluesky's user-driven and voluntary moderation model much better. But that is a separate discussion.)
Yeah. Not being able to admit error is a really bad trait in someone with a lot of responsibility. That's not his only sin but it is a big one.
All I'm saying is that I think there is moderation on lemmy.world that is openly malicious, from a clique of moderators whose names you hear much less often, and I've observed on Reddit this process of sort of knocking out moderators who are guilty of something-or-other to pave the way for the quietly malicious moderation. I've seen it happen on Lemmy to a couple of moderators who I liked a lot more than I like Jordan. I think looking at the whole picture and what the end state is going to be is valuable here, whether or not that picture includes Jordan specifically.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
I don't really have an opinion on removing Jordan. I'm just offering my agreement with you that his judgement and way of interacting are often pretty bad. That's the factual basis, and then what people do after that can be up to their decision.
Mostly what I'm trying to add to that is that I think keeping in mind the end state and what we do want things to look like is a good idea. That can help with taking the factual basis into a concrete decision... it's sometimes not a good idea to jump from "this person is objectively a problem in these specific ways" to "get rid of this person and things will be better" without modeling out what the future state is going to be and specifically what a good solution would look like.
I feel like you're woefully unaware of what is actually happening or cherry picking.
First off, that's a pretty specific example. Do you have literally anything else? Because I have an enormous post above that demonstrates behavior across the board that shows he is unfit. Because I don't even know who UniversalMonk is. I've been informed they're on this thread but their account is banned by Lemmy.world so I have no clue who you're talking about. What I do know is I've seen Jordan do all of the things above. Which then ties into the second thing. One problem does not preclude solving another. Just because one issue is occurring does not mean another issue cannot be solved. Especially if one of them is easier to solve than the other and, by replacing the problem with someone who isn't a problem, it can help the first.
We can. Proton or Photon or whatever it is, a theme for Lemmy.world, allows you to see what specific moderator has taken what specific action against what specific post. I also know people behind the scenes and have been seeing screenshots galore that back that up. Screenshots I cannot show as I was not given permission and I don't want to out people.
Once again, this problem can help be solved by ridding one problematic moderator in favor for someone else who will do the job better. Your argument has no weight. AT ALL. It's completely illogical. "Let us attempt to solve the symptoms without addressing the root cause" is another analogy for what you're saying. JORDAN CAUSES THESE PROBLEMS WITH HIS BEHAVIOR. You claim that he is not the source of this but I literally just gave you a mountain of evidence demonstrating that he is and there are a litany of posts that you have been part of all saying that he is. I do not understand...
And absolutely no one is stopping you from making a post about them. But all I am seeing you do so far is say that I should not criticize Jordan because I might make things worse than racist, transphobic bigot who abuses his position. I'm sorry, your argument is invalid. Flat out. I owe you no argument.
And absolutely no one is stopping you from making a post about that. Or do you expect everyone else to do it for you? Or are you saying that I'm wrong for going after Jordan here when there are other things to deal with? Actually scrap answering those questions. I do not care.
Yeah, really feels like it.
I have. You refuse to accept it. Once again for the people in the back "If you remove the bad moderator who do bad things and replace good moderator who do good things then that look better and feel better and better inspiration and better influence." What is so hard to get about this?
This is not the United States government. It is a forum where moderators get the final say and he's being abusive. If we remove the people at the top who are abusive and replace them with people who are not then all of these problems you're complaining about tend to get resolved. Why? Because they're good people who are willing to do that.
I have thought about this. You haven't. You're jumping straight to the end goal and ignoring any steps of progress in between.
I am not continuing this conversation with you. Have a good day.
Dude what on earth?
Yes, which I mostly agree with, as I keep saying.
Every example you gave, I agree with, as far as I looked into them which was a decent amount. I'm bringing in other issues which I also think should be solved, some of those I don't think he is the source of, but even that I could be wrong about.
Not at all. I'm pretty sure I thanked you for bringing all this up and agreed with pretty much all of it.
The addition of "and replace them with people who are not" is a huge addition here, which would basically address 100% of what I'm saying. "Remove Jordan and then move on" is the only part of what you're recommending that I am even reserving agreement on (not even disagreeing with, but just adding asterisks to my opinion about). If you add "and replace with someone better" to the plan, then it turns into 100% approval for the plan "get rid of Jordan and insert (blank) instead." Assuming that "(blank)" is someone good or even pretty-decent.
Okay, you don't have to, I just wanted to give some clarifying responses to some of what you said. Cheers. Like I said, I agree with pretty much all of your message in general on the factual basis.
I needed to literally spell out the fact that we shouldn't replace an abusive mod with another abusive mod? Really?
Finding someone to moderate a massive community who will do a consistent and passable job at it never mind be "good" in all their decisions, is not trivial. That's part of the underlying issue that leads to a lot of these situations developing.
That's not meant to be an argument for not removing Jordan. There are a bunch of other mods, I'm not even sure that they would need to replace him at all, it might be fine to just take him off the list and replace him with no one (I think that's the most likely outcome / plan honestly.) I'm just saying that including in the equation what happens with the community after is important to include. If the proposal includes replacing him with a good moderator then it turns into an instant win and very clearly a very good idea.
I have no idea why you are being so consistently hostile to me in this conversation.
!world@lemmy.world , !news@lemmy.world , !politics@lemmy.world are in the top 6 most active communities on the whole plateform ( https://lemmyverse.net/communities?order=active ) , with at least 7k weekly active users. They should be able to find people there wanting to help mod the community.
I skimmed through the exchange and it feels like you bringing unrelated issues (such as other mods, or previous moderation issues) that aren't really on topic for this post can be a bit frustrating from Stamets perspective.
Finding someone who "wants to help" is very different from finding someone who's going to following through about putting in the consistent investment of time and energy to actually do it and do a good job at it.
I mean it sounds like he thought I was saying a bunch of stuff I wasn't saying. I get how he might have gotten some of it out of what I said, but some of the stuff I very clearly never said. In any case regardless, if you're right that he felt frustrated to the point that he had to start yelling and typing all these hostile messages while I was repeatedly telling him I didn't have any kind of issue with what he was saying, I don't really feel any responsibility for that on my end, I feel like that's a him issue.
The best way to never know if there's someone is to keep speculating there's no one instead of asking for volunteers on a community. Let's just do it and see how it goes.
Seems like you settled the other stuff with Stamets.
Which is not relevant to this post.
Honestly, neither do I. Reading back on this, I was coming off more hostile than I intended it to be. I will say though that I am absolutely frustrated with your stance, my wording and phrasing just needs a lot more work on my part. I'm dealing with some person shit which this is tapping into very slightly so that's probably it. For that, I am genuinely sorry. It's not your fault that I'm dealing with some shit and it's completely on me for not compartmentalizing better.
I think the frustration for me mostly stems from feeling like you're thinking too far ahead. Like step one is addressing the problem. Step two is dealing with the problem. Step three is making sure that the problem doesn't happen again. What I posted was step 1 but you're already saying "Yeah yeah but what about Step 3?" Moreover, it feels kind of like you're putting that work on me. Like a lot of your comments feel like they're saying that I should have thought about that ahead of time and planned it into my post. Best way I can think to put this is an analogy or metaphor. It's how my brain thinks.
I have a friend named Lemmy and, like every friend we've all had, he doesn't always make the best decisions. Who amongst us do? Lemmy keeps doing some weird things that suggest his mouth is hurting and Stamets, his friend and koala-based dental hygienist, takes a look. It doesn't take long to spot the problem. There's a big ol' cavity. So Stamets starts bringing him to the Dentist so that someone more qualified and in a better position (and someone who knows Lemmy better than Stamets does) can figure out what to do. Stamets suggests a whole tooth extraction because the rot looks too severe and Stamets isn't actually a dentist and isn't even a hygienist of humans. But before the Dentist can take a look and start considering what to do, another friend of Lemmy named Philip says "But what if there ends up being dry socket!" Stamets can't weigh in there because he's not going to be making the decision or the extraction, Philip is in the same boat and the Dentist is still taking a look. When Stamets is like "Well, leaving the rot in for longer can end up causing worse problems like heart disease so we can't just leave it. And that's something that'll be addressed anyway ahead of time to limit that potential. But also I'm not a Dentist and we should wait for a result." Philip then responds with "But we need to have a plan if we're going to remove it!"
Philip isn't wrong but Philip is talking to the wrong person. Stamets then started to feel frustrated because his involvement in it on the worst of days would be limited at best to maybe turning on the nitrous.
So again, I am sorry for how I had responded earlier. That's on me. But that's probably the best way I can word what I'm thinking. Sorry <3
Yeah, all good man. I didn't take offense too much or anything, I have a pretty thick skin as long as somebody seems like they're coming from a good place which it absolutely seemed like you were. I was just honestly confused by it because I thought I was mostly agreeing with you. I looked back over my stuff and I feel like maybe the way I led off the very first reply ("witch hunt") sort of brought in a disagreeable or combative tone, that's all I could really arrive at, but in any case, yeah, I think what you're saying are good valid points.
Naw, not at all. I think a lot of this is going to get handled (if at all) by the lemmy.world team, this is just you and me sort of pitching stuff into the suggestion box as outside observers / non dentists as you said in your later analogy. Me saying "this is how I see it" doesn't at all mean I was trying to put something on you for not seeing it the same way or putting all the stuff I had to say about it into your thoughts about it beforehand.
In the tooth analogy, what I thought I was doing was "yes that one is bad, I think it may have come about because of diet and this is what I've observed as causes, and also look at this other tooth too, that one's less visible but there might be a really significant issue with it as well." I wasn't even weighing in on what should happen, since it's not really my or your decision, just kind of giving perspective on issues that I see and how they relate to this particular issue. But yeah not saying not to deal with this particular issue at all.
All good man, I'm completely fine about it from my end
This is your 3rd time this week bringing up UniversalMonk without being prompted. I'm amazed that this time you didn't use it use it to ignore the entire thing being brought up, like you did about a month ago.
Why do you hate this one user so much that you just keep bringing him up? Like did he set your house on fire during burning man? You hate him this much because he posts on lemmy and is consistent in his beliefs?
Not even getting into how you were caught lying for another .world mod's actions being inconsistent.
LEMMY DRAMA ARGUMENT I'M SO DOWN
How many of my comments do you read that you picked up on me mentioning him a few times?
https://lemmy.world/search?q=universalmonk&type=All&listingType=All&creatorId=16701947&page=1&sort=New
I'm not bothered about the guy, but there happened to be a few times this week that it was relevant to what I was talking about how somebody had reacted to him (voting or whether or not he was getting banned, respectively). Why are you so absorbed in what I'm talking about? I have no idea why I used him as a random example two times, in addition to two times when he was the specific topic of conversation anyway and I participated.
I had to search a little bit to even remember what you're talking about... are we talking about this about PugJesus? I posted 35 comments on that and had a huge extended argument with a couple of the /0 admins, argued about Hamas for a short time, you demanded that I continue an argument with you that I was already having with some people anyway that were a little closer to the actual root of the problem, I think I disengaged from you just because of not wanting to have an infinite number of arguments going on at once, and you followed me around into some other comment threads and demanded to restart the argument in various places, which I declined.
That's how I remember it, I don't completely remember. I'm pretty sure that "caught lying" is how you're summarizing it when I didn't want to keep having a hostile conversation about it with you forever. What was it that you wanted me to bring receipts for or you're saying that I didn't address? I'm happy to address it if you want, I just won't talk with you about it back and forth forever, if that's what you're looking for.
Should the community be able to just exile people for being unpopular? I agree that moderation should be more decentralized and democratic but this strikes me as very close to mob rule.
If some user is causing problems, then the community should articulate a rule to prevent that behavior. If they violate the rule after its creation, then fair enough. But there have been several high profile bans, including UM that struck me as basically witch hunts. Mods standing in the way of those is a point in their favor in my book.
Honestly, if you ask me I think the whole of moderation should be opt-in. Maybe the default set of "people who are allowed to remove content from my feed" matches exactly with how Lemmy does it currently, but then you can always override it (or add to it for that matter) according on your preference.
This whole model where "the app author" / "the server admin" can override content for "the hapless user," and the user has to have these whole stupid endeavors to come before the operators and community "owners" and beseech them to change their experience, is just a silly design.
It's not trivial to make that happen within Lemmy, of course, but it's also not some kind of crazy pipe dream rewrite. If some moderator is removing trolls and CSAM, then fine, but if they start policing people's allowed political views or making dumb decisions, then the users can as a whole just go "lol no" and disable them from controlling the communication they as individuals are allowed to decide they want to receive. That's what makes sense to me. All this stuff about how to beseech the operators to make things more amenable to us, because of their gracious acceptance praise be, is just kind of faffing about trying for a lesser evil.
I completely agree and this is an interesting idea. However it might run into some legal issues. Some content has to be removed and is not optional. So you might need to have a sort of double layered moderation system.
However, once you create the higher layer, there will be the possibility it will be abused, and I’m not sure how you solve that. You can’t just decide to opt out of CSAM removal because then you and your server host could be liable.
Doesn't CSAM removal have to involve the admins anyway, because it needs to be scrubbed completely from the modlog? I'm not completely sure how it works, but I feel like it would be okay to have an admin layer that's only for genuinely illegal content, but then have the majority of the day-to-day moderation be via a voluntary layer.
I’m not sure, is that true? I guess that would make some sense.
Aren’t you an admin?
Not really. I ran my own server for a while but never one with a significant userbase. I've never made efforts to be in the club or learn about the messy ins and outs of it.
Well said!
Dude, again with bringing me up? Really? Is this really gonna be an everyday thing with you?!
I promise you, that you can go an entire day without mentioning my name if you just try. LMAO
I gave my opinon on OP's piece because it was posted here. But I'm not the subject of OP's post, I'm not the mod in OP's post, and I have nothing to do with OP's post.
How many times is this in this week alone?
Phillip checks under his bed for you.
I don't even think of me as much as he thinks of me. And I am me!
he is an egg shell liberal lol
How dare you call out that my favorite party actively hurts me! GUARDS! BAN HIM!