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Leaked Chats Show Alleged Kirk Killer 'Doesn't Fit Into Any Tidy Narrative'
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
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What are you trying to say?
Do you actually believe that 22 year olds talk like this? They’ve been trying to push a narrative since the bullet was fucking fired.
They want to make this into a martyrdom. They are going to force the story to match.
I can believe 22 year olds talk like this, by these newer accounts he seemed very normal, likeable and intelligent.
But I also think there is a concerted effort to twist the narrative every which way, to emphasize the more extreme elements and mischaracterize the mundane elements as extreme. I don't think we will know what happened for sure, for a long time.
To me, the evaluation that he was sort of apolitical is the most baffling explanation. That he was closeted bi and in a relationship with a trans or transitioning woman carries a lot of baggage when viewed by right wing hate movements who control vast parts of the government and media. But to me and probably you, this is just sort of normal for his generation. Based on that, even if he was a groyper, we won't know until we hear it from him, which we won't until after the trial. The right is too invested in hushing that part up, as I think you're alluding to.
But I don't think we are to the point of total show trials and completely fabricated evidence at the level of a court document, which itself would have to be backed by verifiable evidence. I have no doubt that facts were being massaged to fit the rights narrative, but it appears the roommate was rightfully horrified by Robinson's actions and cooperated with police, by all verifiable accounts.
I think we need to be very careful with how we perceive news as its coming in. I'm fortunate to have many people and orgs in my life where I can have detailed, deep, probing discussions about current events, because without those people I would be a stark raving lunatic right now. The conspiracy mindset seeps into every bit of my thinking, because we know there are actual conspiracies happening! We just don't know the specific content or subject of them which leads to wild speculation.
There is a period in the news cycle that I call "fog of war" where you literally can't see what is actually happening. Its usually better for ourselves and others if we reserve final judgement for when the facts are mostly all in.
They literally claimed that the “TRNS” marking on the bullet from the manufacturer was “trans ideology.”
Do we have any evidence that they were romantically involved with the “transgender roommate” or that that person was trans at all? I thought he was living with his family?
We are at the point where they are just making shit up. We know for a fact that they hired people to go through the Epstein files and remove Trump’s name. They used photoshopped pictures to claim Kilmer Garcia was a gang member. They slaughtered 11 people on a boat with no evidence that they were drug smugglers.
It is time to be fucking conspiratorial. We have a president who openly wants to be a dictator. We have an entire right wing grifter sphere that claims every single mass shooter is trans, as it fucking happens.
Stop giving charity to Patel and this administration.
Ken Klippenstein verified some of these details in his interviews and research https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/exclusive-leaked-messages-from-charlie
You do realize that just believing the opposite of what your enemy says is not engaging in factual analysis right? Our enemies can, and do, twist their narratives in many ways in order to obscure facts by encouraging tribalist, campist justification in their enemies (us.)
I don’t see any messages in that post that confirm the dialogue I posted.
My reading of what you said was that there was no basis for Robinson's relationship to a trans person. you know damn well I can't account for those lines as they come from court documents.
Retreating to a specificity in a disagreement is not a way to make yourself right, its a way to make me wrong. If I want to, I can retreat to some generality where I feel right and you appear to be wrong. This is exactly the kind of campist reasoning I try to avoid in good faith.
My whole point was to caution against conspiratorial thinking, which is something i admit I also get caught up in very easily. I acknowledge that a fight has its own logic, and that logic does not always lead to the discovery of fact, but can deepen misunderstanding. You clearly disagree with me which is fine. I'm not trying to give you a lecture or give the right a pass. I fight the right every day in my communities through political organizing, others oppose the right in different ways. We need all hands on deck, pulling the same direction to reverse the momentum of forces organized against us.
I'm trying to caution someone who I view as an ally not to fall into a trap. You try to characterize me as an enemy because I ask you to show caution. I am not your enemy. This is exactly how the people in power motivate narratives in order to divide regular people so we can't fight them together.
But I promise you, being a conspiratorial crank will not win people over to our side. That's why I try to resist it in myself and urge caution in others. But you do you, I'm not the thought cops.
Dude, where did I characterize you as an “enemy”?
Yeah we definitely need to be enlightened centrists in a time when the government is going full on fascist.
Where in that random guys blog post is even the confirmation of the mythical trans girlfriend?
I’m glad you’re such a “community organizer”, making sure that we are as fair as possible to the people who made up the “Bowling Green massacre.”
I also love the idea that “conspiratorial thinking” might “drive people away.” No. They don’t fucking care. They want blood. They want to attack trans people. They don’t give a rats ass what anyone on the “Left” actually says.
Ken Klippenstein isn't some random dude. He wrote for the Nation (one of the only media outlets that pushed back against the right's angelic charactetization of Kirk) and the Intercept. He is definitely a leftist, definitely opposed to the right wing, and a good serious journalist.
When you call me an "enlightened centrist" then to me you are calling me an enemy. I am not a centrist, I'm a communist. I am active in national and local politics through DSA, and part of a faction (R&R) on the left of the largest american socialist org in 100 years. I have my own entry on KeyWiki (a site that doxxes left wing organizers) and consider it a badge of honor. I care about facts, because I care about being credible to people we need to win over to our side.
I believe these issues are serious and I take them seriously, as do our enemies. I think you may have talent as a polemicist, but that's not my role and I resist the quixotic insistence that polemics are objective fact.
You're trying to discredit me but I don't need your credit.