Europe
Europe community on dbzer0. Intended to be a place to discuss European news, politics, or just general topics from a European perspective. Since this is on dbzer0 expect the community to lean more leftist-anarchist but a wide range of views are accepted here (within reason).
Rules:
1. No Bigotry or Hate Speech
Any forms of Homophobia, Transphobia, Queerphobia, Racism, or Ableism will be met with swift and harsh action and will not be tolerated here whatsoever. Bigots will be banned immediately on-sight. This includes apologia of it.
Trying to be politely or intellectually bigoted i.e. "Just asking questions" won't be tolerated.
2. No Zionism
Any forms of Zionism or Zionist rhetoric will not be tolerated here, this includes Zionist apologia, accusations of antisemitism towards anti-Zionists, or blatant denial or downplaying of the genocide towards Palestinians. Any attempt to uphold or prop up the IHRA definition of antisemitism, will be treated as Zionism.
Anyone engaging in Pro-Zionist sentiment or apologia will be actioned in accordance with its severity.
Note: Trying to find loopholes or whataboutery to see what is or isn't genocide denial or Zionism will be treated as a violation of this rule. Don't test us.
3. Stay Civil
Please maintain civil discourse in the community. Do not engage in arguments with others, name-calling, or insults. Note that calling out bigotry or Zionism is not considered an insult. In heated arguments users are encouraged to or even required to disengage failure to do so will result in mod action.
4. No Misinformation
Spreading of misinformation intentionally in this community is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Spreading misinformation hurts the credibility of the community and can mislead people sometimes in dangerous ways. Users who intentionally post misinformation as articles, comment answers, or in attempt to win arguments will be actioned swiftly.
Note: This includes Russian and Chinese propaganda. Users with a history of such posting will be banned on sight.
5. No AI Content
Please do not post articles or content primarily created using generative AI. Generative AI content may contain misinformation or be lower quality and thus is discouraged. Posts and comments featuring it will be removed. However this community does not allow or tolerate Anti-AI trolling or hostility and users who engage in such behavior will be actioned for it, additionally Anti-AI trolling violates Rule 3 and often Rule 4 so it is generally unacceptable already.
Note: Rules 1 & 2 may be subject to preemptive mod action due to their severity, and they apply to a user's entire post history. Not just this community.
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One thing I know about Italians is that .... they are always a proud people who are always about themselves
It's not hard to sway the population as long as you promote the idea of nationalism, racism and identity - Italy for Italians and no one else.
It's the same format they have for America ... except it's harder to do in America because they always have to admit to a historic multicultural background.
It's often easier in Italy which has a very long, historic, proud and well documented monocultural past. (Yes, yes, I know .... Italy also has a multicultural past, but to most modern Italians, most average Italians like to believe that they have a monocultural past)
Monocultural past? Italy is not a single country even today. People 200km apart can't understand each other if they would speak their local language. People hate each other even within the same region (e.g., Pisa vs Livorno). There is quite a lot of hate and discrimination even between South and North, between cities (Naples/Milan/Rome), especially due to internal migrations (many people go from South to Rome to study, or north to work).
One of the major parties (today) rebranded as a nationalist party just recently, but is still called "north league" and was a secessionist party until 10 years ago or so (probably still is to some extent).
Everyone in Italy is absolutely aware of local culture and differences, and Italians have a very vague idea of what Italy is as a country. The national identity is really weird, and often people feel more part of their local heritage than Italian (e.g., Sicilian or roman).
Also dunking on Italy is basically a national sport, almost everyone in Italy is convinced that abroad "things work, not like here". However, people get protective when an outgroup criticizes Italy, that's when you get a "nationalist" perspective. This is quite common for many groups though.
Yuuuup. I'm from Sardinia, and when i hear another guy from my region i almost immediately know if he's from Cagliari, Sassari, or Nuoro, just from the accent. Also the first two cities have quite a beef between them.
I think you're wrong on this one.
Not being a settler colony doesn't automatically mean you're monocultural.
In my experience, Italians are acutely and constantly aware of their regional differences and their regional language. They often switch between local language and standard Italian in their day to day life. Even more so than Germans.
Of course, there are those who believe they're monocultural. But that's the same in the US, you have people who say to every non-white person:"go home to your own country."
You are First Nation, so you're aware of the peoples that have been there. But the average American (Canadians probably less so) thinks about Native Americans zero times in a year. (This is a hypothesis)
I would say the centuries of fragmentation of the Italian peninsula actually bolstered the nationalist spirit more than in countries with a long history as a unified nation (England, France, Spain…) and much literature taught at school treats this topic.
But yeah history doesn’t teach shit, it looks like…
I'm not Italian but I have several Italian Canadian friends.
I just had this conversation with an older Italian Canadian friend of mine ... she's first generation Canadian and her parents were from northern Italy in the Veneto region. She told me a story about how she went back to visit relatives of hers years ago. They called her Canadian but didn't call her Italian. They said you have to be born in Italy as an Italian with an Italian family and grow up in the language and the culture in order to call yourself Italian. Anything else and you weren't Italian.
I am Italian from a nearby place to Veneto: can confirm that there is an obnoxious cultural protectionism that’s appalling. In general people are very friendly and kind, but so close minded… I only grew out of it (I think?) once I moved abroad. It’s bittersweet, because it’s nice to be proud of being part of a community, but at the same time there is much emptiness in thinking of oneselves as something special just for what’s on the passport.
The funny part was that she traveled to Italy alone from Canada .... her Italian relatives scolded her and said that is definitely not something an Italian woman should do. If they were Italian at all.