this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2025
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SneerClub

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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

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It might as well be my own hand on the madman’s lever—and yet, while I grieve for all innocents, my soul is at peace, insofar as it’s ever been at peace about anything.

Psychopath.

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[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 9 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

I suppose one prominent thing is his book, Quantum Computing Since Democritus. I know of various other books about quantum information/computing, written from a physicist perspective. There are David Mermin's Quantum Computer Science: An Introduction (Cambridge UP, 2007) and Eleanor Rieffel and Wolfgang Polak's Quantum Computing: A Gentle Introduction (MIT Press, 2014). If anyone knows a decent undergrad introduction to Gödel incompleteness and its relation to the halting problem, that would probably cover a lot of the rest, apart from what I recall as rather shallow pseudophilosophical faffling. (I am going off decade-old memories and the table of contents here.)

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I borrowed a copy of Quantum Computing Since Democritus and read a bit of it. As can happen in books based directly on lectures, it has more "personality" overtly on display than the average technical book. That goes for good and for ill. What Alice finds engaging, Bob can find grating, and vice versa. In this case, I noticed some passages that sound, well, smarmy. I personally can't help but read them through the lens of everything that's happened since, and all the ways that Aaronson has told the world what kind of person he is. Through that lens, there's a kind of self-deprecating arrogance on display, as though the book is saying, "I am a nerd, I hold the one true nerd opinion, and everything I assert is evident and simple if you are a nerd, which again, I am the defining example of." It's possible that I would have skipped past all that a decade ago, but now, I can't not see it.

There are big chunks of it that I'm not the best reader to evaluate. I'm a physicist who has casually studied computer science along with many other interests; I haven't tried to teach P vs NP in a classroom setting. But where the book does overlap with more serious interests of mine, I found it wanting. There's a part (chapter 9) about exploring where the rules of quantum theory could come from, and how the mathematics of the theory could potentially be derived from more basic premises rather than taken as postulates. I found this discussion badly organized and poorly argued. In 2013, it was historically shallow, and now in 2025, it's outdated.

Everything he says about Bohr is caricatured to the point of absurdity.

His history of the halting problem is conventional but wrong.

The last chapter is called "Ask me anything" and records a Q&A he held on the last day of the course upon which the book was based. It gets onto the topic of evolution, veers into naive adaptationism and blends that with social Darwinism... yeaahhhh.

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Glob help me, but I've actually been reading Quantum Computing Since Democritus, and I've been sorely tempted to write an effortful post about it. In particular, it is appealing to ask whether the book delivers on its professed theme. Here's Aaronson in the preface, laying out what he considers the book's "central message":

But if quantum mechanics isn’t physics in the usual sense – if it’s not about matter, or energy, or waves, or particles – then what is it about? From my perspective, it’s about information and probabilities and observables, and how they relate to each other.

This is a defensible claim. All the way back in the 1930s, Birkhoff and von Neumann were saying that we should understand quantum physics by modifying the rules of logic, which is about as close to "quantum information" thinking before the subjects of computer science and information theory had really been invented. Later, E. T. Jaynes was fond of saying that quantum mechanics is an omelette that mixes up nature and our information about nature, and in order to make further progress in physics, we need to separate them. When undergrads came to John Wheeler asking for summer research projects, he liked to suggest, "Derive quantum mechanics from an information-theoretic principle!" But the question at hand is whether Aaronson's book succeeds at making a case. You can talk a lot about quantum information theory or quantum computing without convincing anyone that it illuminates the fundamental subject matter of quantum mechanics. Knuth's Art of Computer Programming is not an argument that classical electromagnetism is "about information".

Here's Aaronson a bit later:

Here, the physicists assure us, no one knows how we should adjust our intuition so that the behavior of subatomic particles would no longer seem so crazy. Indeed, maybe there is no way; maybe subatomic behavior will always remain an arbitrary brute fact, with nothing to say about it beyond “such-and-such formulas give you the right answer.”

Then he argues,

as the result of decades of work in quantum computation and quantum foundations, we can do a lot better today than simply calling quantum mechanics a mysterious brute fact.

What is this new improved perspective? Here's how his italicized paragraph about it begins:

Quantum mechanics is a beautiful generalization of the laws of probability: a generalization based on the 2-norm rather than the 1-norm, and on complex numbers rather than nonnegative real numbers.

That isn't just a "brute fact". It's the same "brute fact" that an ordinary textbook will tell you! It's the "fourth postulate" in Cohen-Tannoudji et al., equation (1.3) in Griffiths and Schroeter, page 9 of Zwiebach. All that Aaronson has done is change the jargon a tiny bit.

Aaronson declares himself indifferent to the needs of "the people designing lasers and transistors". And fair enough; we all have our tastes for topics. But he has set himself the challenge of demonstrating that studying how to program computers that have not been built, and comparing them to computers that physics says can never be built, is the way to the heart of quantum mechanics.

Aaronson quotes a passage from Carl Sagan, thusly:

Imagine you seriously want to understand what quantum mechanics is about. There is a mathematical underpinning that you must first acquire, mastery of each mathematical subdiscipline leading you to the threshold of the next. In turn you must learn arithmetic, Euclidean geometry, high school algebra, differential and integral calculus, ordinary and partial differential equations, vector calculus, certain special functions of mathematical physics, matrix algebra, and group theory . . . The job of the popularizer of science, trying to get across some idea of quantum mechanics to a general audience that has not gone through these initiation rites, is daunting. Indeed, there are no successful popularizations of quantum mechanics in my opinion – partly for this reason. These mathematical complexities are compounded by the fact that quantum theory is so resolutely counterintuitive. Common sense is almost useless in approaching it. It’s no good, Richard Feynman once said, asking why it is that way. No one knows why it is that way. That’s just the way it is.

Aaronson follows this by saying that he doesn't need convincing: "Personally, I simply believe the experimentalists" when they say that quantum physics works. Again, fair enough on its own. But I think this is poor media literacy here. Sagan's Demon-Haunted World is all about the public understanding of science, the difference between authorities and experts, the challenge of becoming scientifically literate, and that kind of thing. What Sagan means by "what quantum mechanics is about" in this context is what physicists use the theory to do, day by day, and why we have confidence in it. Even if you come along with a better explanation of where the mathematics comes from, all that won't go away!

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 2 points 1 day ago

Aaronson goes on:

Look, obviously the physicists had their reasons for teaching quantum mechanics that way, and it works great for a certain kind of student. But the “historical” approach also has disadvantages, which in the quantum information age are becoming increasingly apparent. For example, I’ve had experts in quantum field theory – people who’ve spent years calculating path integrals of mind-boggling complexity – ask me to explain the Bell inequality to them, or other simple conceptual things like Grover’s algorithm. I felt as if Andrew Wiles had asked me to explain the Pythagorean Theorem.

And then, did anyone clap?

This is a false analogy. I don't think it's a surprise, I am not convinced that it's an actual problem, and if it is, I don't think Aaronson makes any progress to a solution.

The Pythagorean theorem is part of the common heritage of all mathematics education. Moreover, it's the direct ancestor to the problem that Wiles famously solved. It's going to be within his wheelhouse. But a quantum field theorist who's been deep into that corner of physics might well not have had to think about Bell inequalities since they were in school. It's like asking an expert on the voyages of Zheng He about how Charlemagne became Holy Roman Emperor. There are multiple aspects of Bell inequalities that someone from a different specialization could want "explained", even if they remember the gist. First, there are plenty of questions about how to get a clean Bell test in the laboratory. How does one handle noise, how do we avoid subtly flawed statistics, what are these "loopholes" that experimentalists keep trying to close by doing better and better tests, etc. Aaronson has nothing to say about this, because he's not an experiment guy. And again, that's entirely fair; some of us are best as theorists. Second, there are more conceptual (dare I say "philosophical"?) questions about what exactly are the assumptions that go into deriving Bell-type inequalities, how to divide those assumptions up, and what the violation of those inequalities in nature says about the physical world. Relatedly, there are questions about who proved what and when, what specifically Bell said in each of his papers, who built on his work and why, etc. Aaronson says very little about all of this. Nothing leaps out at me as wrong, but it's rather "101". The third broad category of questions are about mathematical specifics. What particular combination of variables appears in which inequality, what are the bounds that combination is supposed to satisfy, etc. The expressions that appear in these formulae tend to look like rabbits pulled out of a hat. Sometimes there are minus signs and factors of root-2 and such floating around, and it's hard to remember where exactly they go. Even people who know the import of Bell's theorem could well ask to have it "explained", i.e., to have some account given of where all those arbitrary-looking bits came from. I don't think Aaronson does particularly well on this front. He pulls a rabbit out of his hat (a two-player game with Alice and Bob trying to take the XOR of two bits), he quotes a number with a root-2 in it, and he refers to some other lecture notes for the details, which include lots of fractional multiples of pi and which themselves leave some of the details to the interested reader.

Aaronson leads into this rather unsatisfying discussion thusly:

So what is Bell’s Inequality? Well, if you look for an answer in almost any popular book or website, you’ll find page after page about entangled photon sources, Stern–Gerlach apparatuses, etc., all of it helpfully illustrated with detailed experimental diagrams. This is necessary, of course, since if you took all the complications away, people might actually grasp the conceptual point!

However, since I’m not a member of the Physics Popularizers’ Guild, I’m now going to break that profession’s time-honored bylaws, and just tell you the conceptual point directly.

The tone strikes me, personally, as smarmy. But there's also an organizational issue. After saying he'll "just tell you the conceptual point directly", he then goes through the XOR rigmarole, which takes more than a page, before he gets to "the conceptual point" (that quantum mechanics is inconsistent with local hidden variables). It's less direct than advertised, for sure. I have not systematically surveyed pop-science explanations of Bell's theorem prior to 2013, but the "page after page of entangled photon sources..." rings false to me.

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