"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
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(caution of biased source)
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Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
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Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
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Full thread (archived): https://archive.ph/TA3k4
ROFL this thread is hillarious. OP sure picked the wrong instance to ask their question.
(For fuck sakes: Please do not ask questions (expecially questions that may involve politics) in TankieLiteEdition.ml, aka: lemmy.ml)
I mean on the second paragraph, they're not entirely wrong. Chinese citizens do generally seem satisfied with the country and the quality of life there could be far worse. China isn't democratic on a national level, it does have local elections with approved candidates.
It just depends how much you care about your freedom of speech, which is a common western value.
Personally, I think the status quo on China isn't too bad.
Because if a Chinese citizen complains, they disappear.
Not necessarily. If you post about it online, you might get the post removed, banned, and at worst, a visit from the police. You can personally complain to officials though in private with no recourse. They just don't want you stirring up a protest
Its much harder to find income in China, which is why my parents decide to immigrate to the US. (And before anyone says "socialized healthcare" nope, AFIAK, you don't get free healthcare, at least not when my parents and I left)
Yeah, definitely not free. When I was working there I had to have an employer-provided health insurance plan to be eligible for routine care. No different from the US.
There is a state Medicaid/Medicare type of social insurance plan in China, but it really sucks and barely covers anything. Almost like Medicaid/Medicare.
The other crappy part about trying to get healthcare in China is that you never know when someone is about to try to sell you some TCM woo when you're just looking for antibiotics.
I have some very serious health considerations. These require multiple specialists be seen on the regular, and lots of expensive imaging, tests, corrective measures, therapy, etc. When I was on medicaid it was a better experience than when I had a "cadillac" coverage plan, when I worked a pretty well paid job with government.
Oddly enough, 凉茶 sort of works?
Maybe a placebo idk 🤷♂️
But yea my grandmother want to boil some weird herbs/animal organ... like... no thanks.
I have no idea if those stuff they sell at the TCM shops with those weird herbs actually do anything, but it taste bad and I have yet to hear from scientists talking about it, so nah, its just very bitter (or otherwise weird tasting) "soup" for unknown effects.
(I say "herb" but actually I have no idea what those plants things are, just search "traditional chinese medicine shop" and you'll see what I mean. There are like tons of those in New York City lol.)
These TCM stuff is kinda fucking with my depression, because my parents are very skeptical of "western" medicine, especially antidepressants which affects the brain, so they do not want me to take medication for depression. And I'm still a dependent on their insurance, and I have to rely on them to pay for medical bills. They think its some evil spirit or something... 🤦♂️
So yea idk what to do, depression sucks, especially with the ongoing US wave of xenophobic policies by the current administration.
I love a good tea when I have a sore throat, because it helps alleviate the scratchy/coughy sensations.
But I'd also like some goddamn amoxicillin when I have strep, please.
I have a Chinese friend currently living there and is unemployed. They have said there are no benefits.
They still don't have free healthcare. Although from what I hear, it's substantially better. Someone I know spent a week in hospital in China, and was charged £500. Insurance paid for it all. Granted, they are paid less on average, but U.S. healthcare costs are ludicrous. I do believe China is struggling with an employment problem, though.
Is it also something like "you get free healthcare if you bribe the doctors?"
Idk what exactly do you mean by "bribe the doctors".
Everything is out of pocket, you have to pre-pay for everything.
Its a common TV trope in Chinese drama shows that someone can't pay for for an expensive emergency procedure, and then they somehow find a long lost relative (or a friend or something like that) and ask them to pay for it. Like... lmao, its got the Squid Game feel to it
Ah, okay, because that's what I hear happened in my country. Literally, you had to bribe your way in to expect decent health care conditions and fair treatment - either with money or with products that were hard to find on the market. Bribes continued after 1989 as well, but not so much, and the newer generations reject being bribed altogether.
except for those under the threat of imperialism
Who?
Those victims of the Belt and Road Initiative, Mongolia, Tibet, Hong Kong, Uyghurs, and probably Taiwan later
and that's just modern imperialism
Victims of the belt and road initiative? Mongolia also was granted independence ages ago.
The other ones you listed are regions that are part of China.
Suppression of some local cultures, sure, but that's not really "imperialism"
it's nice that you're so selective about the suppression of local culture and foreign governments.
I assume that means you also don't think the US is imperialist?
US can be more imperialist than China as it has a lot of military bases across the world and actively tries to influence the culture of foreign nations. China is largely self interested.
Although I don't know to what extent is imperialism bad. I would prefer full on European imperialism than half-hearted selfish imperialism. Like building infrastructure in and supporting your colonies that cannot support themselves.
Is building infrastructure and supporting your colonies not imperialism?
Yeah. I don't see much wrong with that aspect. Treating them cruelly is the issue.
Imperialism isn't necessarily bad, it's just how you go about it.
Some of the issues with the British empire is that they left some places too early.
The Chinese treated Tibet, Mongolia and the Uyghurs cruelly, to name a few from modern history.
I don't really know who to believe anymore, after the amount of western propoganda going around tbh.
For example, I went to China. Specifically a state-run Church there. And it was normal. The media back here and people kept saying it was purely a propoganda front and "the real believers are underground".
Some said I'd be arrested immediately upon entering (???). I was greeted quite warmly and friendily by all of the officials. Police were lovely, as well as soldiers
My guess is the stuff we read about are isolated incidents. Some are apparently later dealt with. But by the time said isolated incidents make it to western media, the narrative makes it seem like it's a nationwide policy.
The chinese banknotes even have Uyghur and Tibetan languages on it. I also met a Uyghur Muslim who was studying in the UK, so she was clearly allowed to leave the country. They can't hate them that much. Although China does become really paranoid with stuff as well. So I'm not too sure what to believe. Not like I can change anything anyway.
P.S. I also found out a bunch of media I was previously consuming about China was all linked to Li Hongzi, who is an absolute nutcase.
You visited as a tourist, not as an advocate; of course, you're going to see what you want to see. Next time, you should ask about Tiananmen Square or question police powers, and see what happens
And Australia has Aboriginals on their notes too. What an asinine point.
This sounds exactly like someone defending Israel. Oh, I visited Israel, and there are arabs and Palestinians, and everyone is very happy and friendly. They even have Arabic on their banknotes!
Why should I ask? It's not really any of my business. I don't think you'll have a good time anywhere if you question police powers.
And Australia celebrates it's aboriginals?
Because you're acting like an authority, saying you've been to China and didn't see any of this.
And yes, Australia celebrates its Aboriginals now, but that isn't my point. My point is that it doesn't magically remove the imperialism that minorities face.
I'm not an authority. I'm just giving my own personal experience. I don't think the idea people get from the media is accurate. Every country has it's pros and it's cons. China is no different. It's not North Korea.
long as you admit china is imperialist with human rights abuses we coo
So is the USA, so is the UK, so is Israel, so is Russia, so is Hamas (well not really imperialist).....
pretty much. i think you can argue every country on earth has had human rights abuses at some point in its history.
I am not gonna be like "China is ultimate utopia", but I don't see it as a lesser country to the USA or the UK
To the US I can understand, but why the UK? Surely free healthcare more rights makes the UK overall better?
Infrastructure there is better in some aspects and development is faster. I don't really want to leave the UK though anyway. Like the UK has problems and I don't see them going away anytime soon. While China appears to actually try and aim to fix problems with infrastructure, etc. Some people I knew went to China 10+ years ago, and they had issues with the likes of smog, people's manners and public toilets which were not the case by the time I went. (Except the public toilets there are still not very nice)
Do you think it's possible that you're only seeing the shit because you know the UK better than China?
What do you mean? The shit about what? China or the UK
the UK
The halved birthrates for the Uyghurs in the last couple of years is a clear sign, they can't suppress that.
Sounds to me like you got the North Korean Tourist treatment.
Everyone's birth rates are rapidly declining.
I don't think I got a north korean tourist treatment. The water went off several times in one day. The Chinese family I stayed with also got the same treatment.
That being said, I'm not making any claims. I just don't trust everything the media says about China anymore.
If PRC was given a military as powerful as the US, they'd be doing the same thing. Its not "X country is evil", its ANY country being given that power WILL become evil.
The only way to avoid it is to NOT have ANY county becoming superpowers.
I think in comparison to the USA and per capita or spending or whatever, the PRC spends a lot less on the PLA.