Pragmatic Leftist Theory
The neolibs are too far right. The tankies are doing whatever that is. Where's the space for the people who want fully-automated-luxury-gay-space-communism, but realize that it's gonna take a while and there are lots of steps between now and then? Here. This is that space.
Here, people should endeavor to discuss and devise practical, actionable leftist action. Vote lesser evil while you build grassroots coalitions. Unionize your workplace. Participate in SRAs. Build cohesion your local community. Educate the proletariat.
This is a place for practical people to develop practical plans to implement stable, incremental improvement.
If you're dead-set on drumming up all 18,453 True Leftists® into spontaneous Revolution, go somewhere else. The grown ups are talking.
Rules:
-1. Don't be a dick. Racism, sexism, other assorted bigotries, you know the drill. At least try to default to mutually respectful discussion. We're all on the same side here, unless you aren't, in which case kindly leave.
-2. Don't be a tankie. Yes I'm sure you have an extensive knowledge of century-old theory. There's been a century of history since then. Things didn't shake out as expected, maybe consider the possibility that a different angle of attack might be more effective in light of new data.
-3. Be practical. No one on the left benefits from counterproductive actions. This is a space informed by, not enslaved to, ideology. Promoting actions that are fundamentally untenable in the system in question, because they fulfill a sense of ideological purity, is a bad look. Don't do that.
view the rest of the comments
God bless single issue voters.
Stepping back to an objective human suffering standpoint, the Trump admin is dismantling environmental protections that would soften the coming climate-collapse holocaust. We've whiplashed back 80+ years and lost decades of institutional knowledge; even physical infrastructure in NASA's case.
This is an issue that objectively has only progressed through D efforts and been defended even through R administrations. Millions of people will needlessly die, particularly those oppressed in the global south, from the actions of this admin. But Genocide Joe was an unpalatable humanitarian choice?
There's no rationality to their stance, they just base their politics on visceral emotional reactions. It's the exact same blind moral purity as pro-birthers and they deserve the same derision.
Ah yes the genocide in gaza is an "issue". A slight inconvenience really
Voting for a genocider was the right choice. War is peace. What is gaslighting? Don't ask me I'm a dumbocrat
"Neither was good, so I refuse to participate and willfully allow the worst to happen. Now I get to feel morally superior to those who took action against the worst because the alternative was flawed." Fuck all the way off you absolute asshat. What was and is happening in Gaza is a fucking atrocity. And your lack of vote not only didn't fix a goddamned thing, if anything, it only made it worse and also allowed a myriad of other atrocities happening now and more soon to come. You are a joke and a moron.
If enough dumbocrats had clearly signaled genocide was a dealbreaker, they might have considered the political implications of bombing civilians. But you guys are coward.
You're just looking to deflect the blame because deep down you feel guilty. And you deserve it, you voted for a genocider. You live in a country that commits genocide. It's a heavy karma, you will have a shit afterlife I'm afraid.
I have no illusions that American politicians of all parties have actively or complicity committed terrible crimes against other nations. In no way shape or form do I support any of it. But I also live in this country in an area that would never vote me into office of any kind, and so short of a massive paradigm shift or revolution, the most influence I can have on the future of this country is by voting and encouraging others to do the same. And like it or not, sometimes that means voting for the lesser of two evils. If that makes me evil too in your mind, then you can go fuck yourself. I'm doing the best I can. And anyone that can't also do that bare minimum can fuck themselves too.
You voted for them lmao
"You claim to hate genocide, and yet you voted for Biden/Trump."
"You claim to hate capitalism, and yet you own a smartphone"
Same energy and level of thought, dude.
Bad analogy. Capitalism didn't do the smartphone. Biden and Trump did genocide.
It's a great analogy because I had no say in either case.
The choice was of anyone other than Tump or Biden/Biden 2.0 (Kamala) in the last two elections. Choosing to vote for nether is just not participating in the election and giving up your ability to influence the outcome. If only one were to support Isreal's genocide, voting for them makes you complicit in that. If both support Isreal's genocide, then there IS NO CHOICE THERE.
That's deflection. You have a vote. If you all had trust in your fellow citizen to have higher standards, you would get better politicians.
WHY WOULD I TRUST MY FELLOW CITIZEN TO VOTE THIRD PARTY AGAINST ALL EXPERIENCE AND EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE!? You're talking nonsense. We are stuck with First Past The Post voting right now, and as such, voting your ideals is for the primaries only. Election day is a strategy game and anyone with sense knows it. Change the system to Approval voting and everyone can vote their conscience and I'll advocate all day for that but that is simply not the reality right now. There were two and only two options. That is he reality.
You are stuck because not enough of yee considers genocide is a deal breaker. Which means you're all guilty.
That's why I hate yanks.
When I have a choice in the matter I'll let you know which way I go on it. Until then I'm not taking the blame for it, thanks.
You voted for a genocider though. What do we do about it. Somebody have to pay
I'm all for holding these assholes to account. Maybe the ones committing the genocide? The ones making the choices to order the killing of people, the ones following those orders, and the ones deciding to fund it? That's not the voter who had no choice in the matter though, my guy.
Yeah because "I do not support what the party I vote for does" is genius. Disingenuous, even.
What's worse than firebombing beyrouth you asshole? You mean worse FOR YOU?
Are you under the delusion that Trump would have Isreal do anything different? That he won't do shit exactly like that himself if he decides it would benefit him to do so? That he won't empower more despots and dictators, arm them, back them, and lead to more mass death of innocents. I mean worse FOR EVERYONE, dick.
America's right hand is way worse than its left hand. Anyway if you could keep your hands to yourself and quit sending white phosphorus to genociders, that would be great.
Right on cue. And yes it's a political issue, it pretty snugly fits the common definition.
Trying to pretend it's something sacrosanct and beyond politics is what makes a single issue voter.
That's you.
If you actually cared about the lives of people in the middle east you should be just as outraged over Trump unilaterally bombing a sovereign state, direct military action that wouldn't have happened with the Democratic candidates.
Or, as I pointed out, the deliberate climate destruction that will literally boil more people alive with wet bulb events.
I AM outraged you fucktard. Can you people stop bombing civilians? Kthx
Damn why so mad, my candidate didn't bomb those people when given the exact same chance. Or are we back to campaigning against hypotheticals instead of reality?
Your candidate was the Vice-President of the US during the bulk of the genocide, idiot.
Okie dokie, still didn't bomb Iran
Iran was a squirmish and you know it. They killed 50k.
Beside, you should demand better politicians idiot.
Ok, here I am demanding it. Now what? Continue to be lambasted by the left for also making the only sane decision in a two box election? How am I going to demand anything now when ICE/National Guard are enforcing curfews to suppress any political gatherings? Come on, tell me what magic wand to wave. You've clearly got the answers
The hell should I know? Maybe ask your loser party for insights, they managed to lose to donald so they can do anything.
Something sacrosant like the Geneva conventions.
It's really revealing that the average American considers genocide "just another issue". Of course, they're not the ones getting bombed.
It's a double edged sword really. If I ever have to pick between fascism here and genocide in America I'll be sure to gleefully cast a ballot for the later lmao
Projected climate collapse deaths by 2050: 14.5 million, about 250k per year.
Gaza deaths to date: in the range of 80k-100k, hard ceiling of ~2 million.
What could be more sacrosanct than the one and only habitable planet we'll ever get? Certainly not a piece of paper?
I live in a first world country with solid resource access, I can tell you for sure I won't affected as much as the people being cooked to death in India. Why should I care about them?
It's revealing that you weigh one favorite group of starving victims against the millions of others. Just because one is direct human cruelty and the other is direct and malicious social murder?
Don't tell me you care about both equally, because that's clearly not the vote you want to cast.
Straight up sliding into denialism I see. The genocide isn't that bad because of global warming now?
Guess what, you can both care about the environment AND not commit genocide. Usually, those even go hands in hands
Voting options were not:
A. Genocide
B. No genocide
They were: A. Genocide in Gaza
B: genocide in Gaza + maybe Ukraine + maybe losing democracy + rolling back environmental protections + enabling the best friend of a known pedophile child trafficker... Etc
C. B, but with a side of smug self satisfying moral high ground
You are not more moral for choosing C.
Yeah well if I'm ever asked to chose between genocide in america and fascism here, I'll gleefully vote for the former.
Oh really? Which candidate on the ballot in 2024 who had that platform? None? Well I guess I'll opt for the one that's at least 1 for 2.
The conversation was always about harm reduction, but keep imagining that one policy is the only thing that matters.
You are the only ones whose harm is being reduced you selfish fuck. Quit bombing civilians
Nah man, plenty of other people all over the world are harmed way more by the Trump administration. Take your head out of the sand if you're going to pretend to actually give a shit about anything
Yeah if only joey did throw his ass in jail for seddition for the time he literally invaded the white house.
But the dems knew they needed trump as a scarecrow.
Ok so they did that. Now what are my new options in the voting booth? Does that actually change my voting strategy in any way?
Way more? Last year, my friend in Beyrouth got firebombed. It was american canister of white phosphorus.
What's way more than that, asshole, do you fucking hear yourself? You guys are desperate to compare yourself to the victims of litteral warcrimes lmao. You are not the victims, retard.
Holy fuck open your goddamn eyes. Way worse is continuing that policy PLUS literally every grift, corruption, destruction, repression, depression and violence of the 2nd Trump term. What the fuck are you even arguing here?
I'm arguing agaisnt your denialist narrative saying the genocide was unavoidable. I am appealed by americans pretending their stupid country bombing people was a fatality.
You can't be a pedant and also be bad at it. You just sound like an idiot.
Oh wait, you think somehow that allowing the Trump regime to take power was the optimal play. Let me correct myself. You are an idiot.
The optimal play would have been not to bomb civilians. But your whole point is denialism. Tell me again how voting for genocide was unavoidable?
lol.
"Tell me again how voting for genocide was unavoidable?"
You need me to explain how the American election system works?
Why don't you grow up?
Damn, in my hypothetical fantasy land Harris solved the crisis and fostered a perfect two state solution. I guess we'll never know how it would play out now because we elected a fascist. "Couldn't be worse" right?
The dems only bombed civilians because they knew their base were cowards and that they would be too scared for it to be a dealbreaker.
It's almost like the "deal" we're weighing is way fucking bigger than one issue. I'm sure next election will have a plethora of progressive candidates and some nice friendly brown-shirt poll watchers cheering us on (we sure taught the dems a lesson right 😎 (don't worry Gaza, help is on the way, just a slight detour through CECOT))
Genocide is a pretty big fucking "issue", idiot.
So is being rounded up in unmarked vans for even speaking out about the genocide that your president is still enabling. Protesting the blue candidate didn't just not change anything, it actively made everything worse
Is that too complex of a thought for you?
Well at least you're paying your share of the price instead of just sending the bill to the middle east.
The truth is that white first world citizens liberalism is only concerned with their own life. The goal is to channel fascism to harm foreigners instead.
Ok so no solution then, you just want everyone to suffer. Ladies and gentlemen, look at the sheer genius of the accelerationism. Completely indistinguishable from the red pilled angst of the modern right.
Literally no political stance, no goals, nothing constructive at all. Congrats, that's quite a platform.