Zohran Mamdani's shown in New York that strong, left-leaning policies that benefit the working class are popular. If the Canadian NDP can learn from that, maybe they'll make a come back -- they need bolder policies, a bigger comprehensive vision, and to avoid getting mired in divisive identity politics.

My guess is that they won't though. Instead we'll get more of the same demographic-based stuff. The NDPs survival depends on the Liberals stuffing up enough to alienate left-leaning moderates.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 20 points 6 days ago

they need bolder policies, a bigger comprehensive vision, and to avoid getting mired in divisive identity politics

Exactly this. It feels like they've fallen into the trap of trying to appeal to a bunch of small demographics with targeted policies and actions. The Liberals and Conservatives can make that work because they just want to win, and they have a brand.

The NDP seems to be more about moving the Overton window. If they want to do that, they need to speak to a much wider swath of the Canadian population.

[–] patatas@sh.itjust.works 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The NDP's big wins in the last parliament were pharmacare and dental care. So I disagree that they've gotten "mired in identity politics".

Besides, standing up for the human rights and welfare of, say, trans people, indigenous people, or people in Gaza, this is standing up for the human rights and welfare of all of us. Maybe they just need to make that connection clearer.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

they need bolder policies, a bigger comprehensive vision, and to avoid getting mired in divisive identity politics.

You focused on the second part of OPs message, when the first part is more interesting I think.

Small incremental gains, like in pharma and dental, are good to show the NDP's usefulness but they aren't a "bigger comprehensive vision".

The NDP needs a bold vision of the scale of the Leap Manifesto or the Green New Deal.

[–] patatas@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

That would be great too!

However, to be clear, Mamdani's proposals are things like publicly-owned grocery stores and free buses—these are tangible cost-of-living benefits that also happen to align with a greater socialist project.

It is great and necessary to have that broader vision, of course. But being able to articulate tangible, easy-to-understand benefits is also important. The right is very good at making up spooky campfire stories about 'eating the bugs' or 'you will all lose your jobs' or 'everything will cost more'.

We need both things. Anyway, I was mostly responding to the notion that identity politics is a) divisive and b) not part of a comprehensive vision.

[–] cyborganism@piefed.ca 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What do you mean by identity politics?

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Not the OP but I kinda agree, the conservatives constantly drive wedge issues based on people's identity: racial, gender, religious, immigrant....

The answer to all of these isn't to get caught up in individual debates but to say that we are all together in this and everyone is entitled to live their lives how they wish in Canada, then we continue talking about the real issue: class warfare.

Gay, straight, Hindu, we're all working class vs. the capitalist ruling class. We have more in common with each other than we'll ever have with the economic lords ruling over the fiefdoms that control every aspect of our lives.

[–] cyborganism@piefed.ca 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

So the Conservatives were doing identity politics, not the NDP.

The NDP are well aware of the wealth gap and the class divide. They've been fighting for not only eliminating the gaps in the rights and freedoms of certain groups, as it should, but also fighting to make sure the wealthiest Canadians pay their fair share. That companies that profited from the pandemic pay a windfall tax, that we tackle the housing crisis with new ideas, and they introduced bills to improve on the coverage of healthcare. But these ideas were not popular with the Liberals or especially the Conservatives. They only managed to pass a couple by making compromises with the Liberals since they were a minority government.

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I do agree and support the NDP but sadly there are a lot of working class people that turn to the conservatives because of social issues, and are turned off from the NDP for "virtue signaling" etc.

Being more neutral (but firm about human rights) and not dwelling on those topics (i.e. not allowing the conservatives to drive the political narrative), would help

[–] cyborganism@piefed.ca 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

So we're supposed to cater to bigots now to get their votes ?

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Those bigots are affected by the negatives of neoliberalism and they're on the same team as us, we're not enabling or supporting their bigotry we're just not allowing bigoted conversations to dominate the political landscape.

Bigoted opinions need to stop being the core political issues we're discussing. Why does everyone care that trans kids are allowed to play sports? Reframe politics to focus on cost of living, wealth inequality, and the active destruction of the environment by capitalism. Those are the big issues of today, as long as you don't let conservatives make it about something else to distract you

[–] cyborganism@piefed.ca 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It matters to these trans kids. It matters to trans people. Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it's not an important issue to someone else. Especially now when they're facing so much hatred and discrimination.

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You're, perhaps intentionally, misunderstanding my point.

[–] cyborganism@piefed.ca 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Trans rights are just as important as the environment and everything else.

The only reason they're being discussed at all is because of the conservatives who want to take them away in the first place. Just like they want to keep exploiting resources that cause global warming and pollute our drinking water. Just like they want to fuck the little guy over in favor of the corporations.

We have to fight against all of it.

[–] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 days ago

You're letting them choose every single battlefield