this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2025
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Veganism
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Predators killing prey is part of the natural order; arguing that we're worse for killing for food than any other predators is, is exactly putting us on a pedestal above every other animal. We're not some special beings above everything, where if we kill a sheep, we're somehow better or worse than a wolf doing it is.
It is not the killing for food that is the problem, it is torturing animals and the ecological impact we're causing with it. Mass producing meat, eggs, anything, by tormenting other living creatures without any consideration they're equally living beings, and destroying ecosystems for it, causing the climate to warm faster... and on top of it all - doing it all voluntarily and knowingly! That makes us monstrous on a scale no other animal has reached.
It could be argued predators playing with food is natural as well; is a cat evil for toying with a mouse? is an orca evil for playing with a seal before eating it? It's just the scope we're talking about is so, so much bigger. We're not killing things ourselves; we've pushed the murder factories out of our sight and minds, and casually consume "products" instead of thinking we're eating something valuable; something that deserves respect even when it's dead.
I have no problem with anyone eating an animal if they have not tortured it or taken part in allowing it's torture; and especially not if they're the one that killed it. That's just how it works in this cursed planet, we kill, we eat, we get eaten. I also have no problem with anyone refusing to take part in it, and considering it horrible practice; it is. It's horrendous. Life is horrible, horrible thing full of suffering and decay. If you can choose it is better for the environment and usually for your health to not kill and eat what you killed.
What I do take issue with is acting like humans are not part of the nature. We are part of it all. We're just like a wolf, or a sheep; all living, breathing things, doing beautiful things, doing horrible things. Killing and eating. All the same. You are not above (nor below) every other living animal for what you eat or what you do not, and I'm sick and tired of people pretending to argue we're worse just to put us on a pedestal, while doing nothing to actually stop the torture of animals.
Amen to all that.
If a herd of cows is well cared for and leads a happy life? And if they're one day killed painlessly, and then feed hundreds of people?
I'm not qualified to make blanket statements of ethics. Especially when some people live in parts of the world with little arable land, but many grasses that ruminants can eat and digest.
I used to eat a lot of meat. I used to not give much thought to where the meat came from. Both those things have changed as I've learned more.
I can't change the thousands of years of cattle being bred for meat and dairy. But I can choose to avoid factory dairies that treat cows inhumanely.
Should fewer cows exist in the world? Should humans create fewer cows? Yes.
But they do exist. We can't instantly change that. And some will be used for meat, we also can't change that. So we start by trying to make more intelligent decisions, reducing society's exploitation of meat animals, and helping people understand why this is good.
Obviously this has to do with more than cows, that's just one example.
Exactly this. If our choices are keeping our personal moral purity or reducing harm to minimize animal suffering and destruction of nature, I obviously choose the latter. Who cares about what's wrong or right over trying to actively stop this ecological disaster we're doing? Eating meat is socially acceptable right now, do we like it or not. Getting people to side against that is an uphill battle that won't be won by being actively hostile about it.