this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2025
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[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing] I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing] Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing] Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks] Why… why are they still arguing?

https://thebad.website/comic/infighting

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[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 29 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (14 children)

This is what happens when hyper-individuality becomes a core of your (western) society. It’s also a byproduct that inadvertently benefits the ruling class. They want division and leftist pockets are already doing it themselves in a lot of cases. Purity tests can fracture communities and needlessly push away potential allies.

It’s why I tend to quote Fred Hampton often. He correctly understood that it was a working class versus ruling class situation and that arguing amongst ourselves was detrimental to organizing. It’s a vertical fight and horizontal attacks waste energy. You can still point out errors in what a comrade says. Criticism, self-criticism, and debate are all components of democratic centralism.

[–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The problem lies when one particular set of "leftists" thinks the best way foward is to have a literal capitalist state with a red flag and execute anyone who could even be a minimal obstacle to that.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 days ago (3 children)

The more nuanced communists understand that the past doesn’t have to define the future 1:1, but they also have the uphill battle of people agreeing with everything they say, until they actually mention the word “communism,” thanks to decades of propaganda.

[–] jbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It's not only decades of propaganda.

Whether you like it or not, but many countries have suffered enourmosly (genocides, extermination of local language and culture) under the banner of regimes that claimed to represent communist ideals and allegedly aimed to develop a communist society.

I was born in the tail end of the USSR, so I honestly don't really remember it. But from the stories of my parents and relatives, it was trash.

You can't just dismiss the association between the USSR and attempts at achieving communism.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I’ve talked to a handful of people that lived through that era in Russia and none of them had positive things to say. They were all working class folks. I trust their judgment over someone on the internet, and I don’t get sucked into team sports identity type shit. We can pick and choose the good ideas and acknowledge the shitty ones.

[–] jbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

That's my point. USSR and the CCP have arguably permanently damaged the communism "brand".

And you talked to russians, things were even worse for nations occupied by the russians.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Trying to decouple the term and core ideas from the past actions is going to be an uphill battle forever. That requires imagination and forward thinking, but you have the folks dunking on it because of the atrocities carried out under it, and the folks on the other side that have managed to embrace those parts so hard that they can no longer sea reason or find nuance.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 3 points 3 days ago

Yes it is exactly like how antichrists have co-opted the term Christian. For many if it ever was, it will never be clean again in their lifetime unless there's some massive Purge. They never were Christians and, will never be christians. But as long as they're allowed to be the face of Christianity it's only going to hurt it as a whole. At least more than it already hurts itself.

[–] jbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago

Yes, we need a "brand" that builds upon the ideals (and some of the theory) of communism/Marxism while taking in account both history (e.g. even something as simple as democratic governance being non-negotiable) and the "spirit" and challenges of our times.

[–] Bubbey@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Under capitalism you can criticize capitalism. under communism, dissension is met with punishment.

[–] jbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago

If not death, or being institutionalised.

But you can also get institutionalised or killed under capitalism too if you say the wrong things (China, Russia, the Gulf States).

While you might not be killed in the US, but you can be harassed via lawsuits or deported to a foreign internment camp if you say the wrong things.

[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago

"claimed" and "allegedly" being the keywords here

[–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I am aware of that. I'm just like... I see a lot of "leftists" that think "successful socialist projects" have to replicate the USSR 100% with everything good and bad about it mixed in. If your definition of "building a better world" is killing or enslaving people for disagreeing with you, you are not a leftist, you're a nazbol.

And like, the USSR clearly does not exist anymore, and for most of its existence it made a joke out of socialist principles.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 7 points 3 days ago

We’ve also seen years of what Russia in its current state and Putin are capable of. None of it is good. Hell, when I was more active in activist circles I was in very close proximity to a Russian-driven disinformation campaign in 2016 that used and exploited leftist organizations for its own benefit. It wasn’t some “hey, we’re friends” situation; it was the Kremlin using and disposing of people to destabilize in the same way the US and western powers have for decades themselves. Hitching your wagon to other political powers is a shit idea. There is a reason I don’t trust any politician.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Well... How hard to they want to use that word?

Even more because if everybody is actually agreeing, that means they didn't wander anywhere outside of the "Social Democracy" boundaries of communism, and don't need to use the generic label that fascists stole long ago.

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