this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
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Australia tests new long-range missile capable of hitting targets 500km away (www.abc.net.au)
submitted 1 week ago by Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone to c/worldnews@aussie.zone
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New title: ADF gets to play with American toys, while they don't need them.

Seriously, if this doesn't result in full control of production and independent use, then these things are useless to be included in defence plans of Australia.

We'd be better off without them, knowing we absolutley don't have the capability, instead of having the possibility of the rug pulled, like what has happened to Ukraine.

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[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

Most of what you said there can just as easily be laid at Israel’s feet

Strong doubt

Queers escape Gaza to get to Israel and for good reason, Israeli is the closest middle eastern neighbour to the west that I can think of but we have the advantage of not living next to Islamic Jihadi's, the worst ours can do is hold signs like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_anti-Islam_film_protests#/media/File:2012_Sydney_protest.jpg

Such lovely people, I have no idea why people would have an issue with them and say they can't integrate into the west

Look at how America responded to 9/11, I don't want to imagine what we would be doing in NZ right now if they were firing rockets at us, suiciding bombing, beheading, kidnapping and torturing

they treat other humans, like arab Israelis, or Gazans, or west bankers like cattle

I wonder why :P

Everything you mentioned will have a negative effect on the economy but Israeli is still

How Israel Got So Rich While Surrounded By Enemies

https://youtu.be/bnvj1-3hIoo?t=555

Israel’s stock market outperforms Middle East counterparts despite multi-front wars

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/18/israels-stock-market-outperforms-middle-east-despite-multi-front-wars.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Israel

The economy of Israel is a highly developed free-market economy.[23][4][24][25][26] The prosperity of Israel's advanced economy allows the country to have a sophisticated welfare state, a powerful modern military said to possess a nuclear-weapons capability with a full nuclear triad, modern infrastructure equivalent to developed countries, and a high-technology sector competitively on par with Silicon Valley.[23] It has the second-largest number of startup companies in the world after the United States,[27][needs update] and the third-largest number of NASDAQ-listed companies after the U.S. and China.[28] American companies, such as Intel,[29] Microsoft,[30] and Apple,[31][32] built their first overseas research and development facilities in Israel. More than 400 high-tech multi-national corporations, such as IBM, Google, Hewlett-Packard, Cisco Systems, Facebook and Motorola have opened R&D centers throughout the country.[33] As of 2025, the IMF estimated Israel has the 25th largest economy in the world by nominal GDP, and one of the biggest economies in the Middle East.[1]

Incredible

But I guess my main point is, any Gaza based troubles should fade away quickly once it calms down

NZ on the other hand afaik is in a worse position than us when it comes to manufacturing military hardware

At the same time Israel would just be for air defence, they are in a unique position of being surrounded by lovely people on all sides

Would it be possible for us to manufacture weapons and military equipment? I'd like to think we could but I just don't see it at the moment, not without a significant increase in robotics

[–] Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I've never claimed the other side are full of lovely people, thats not point. There you go again with your equivalences. Let me explain, when one person murders a brother and that victim's brother then goes and murders the original murderers brother, two crimes have been committed, and each murderer is answerable for their crimes. You ikplicitly advocate eye for an eye with your tacit support of Israels actions. Eye for an eye simply leads to ongoing feuds, as we see a lot of with Israel and their neighbours, time for a different approach.

You're a massive fan of Israel obviously, but try looking at the experience from the other side. The crimes they've committed aren't forgotten, theres a long history there, and it doesn't do anyone well to ignore one side in favour of the other. The colonial take over of that land, the ongoing persecution of the people i've already mentioned isn't absolved because they've had crimes committed against them. Its perplexing that i have to restate this.

My point about NZ is they're the only country we can rely on to a high degree, not whatever you think i said about their miltary and technological capability. I've said this a couple different ways now.

I think the disconnect is your impressed and argue that we should cleave to powerful allies, whereas i'm impressed and argue that we should cleave to those willing to uphold some semblance of moral values. Until we both realise we aren't valuing the same things here, we won't be able to see the others point of view.

All you said about Israel's economy was a bit wasted, i actually accounted for that and didn't dismiss it. But to ignore the fact their close relationship and support from the United States, and European countries like Britain and France and their efforts in building up that place as an 'unsinkable aircraft carrier' misses the point of why their economy is so 'blessed'. I find it incredible you would ignore that. There are few economies that can sustainably pull themselves up without massive support from benefactors, Israel isn't incredible, its a natural outcome of continued unquestioning investment and support. My point is, thats been put at risk, and made harder since their behaviour since Oct 7th, and now they aren't materially different from their neighbours in that regard.

Left wing progressives don't tend to let go of things. They've been on this train for a long time. I generally find its good to listen to those people, they aren't shunted off on a different tangent like the rest of society so easily is. Thats my experience with left wing progresssives, maybe we've had different interactions there.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Israel isn’t incredible

Yeah we clearly don't see eye to eye at all

It's the only nation in the middle east with values close to ours, if Israel isn't incredible, then what are all the countries around Israel?

Lets look at Gaza since it's the one you can probably relate to the most:

First they are given back their land and have a functioning democracy, the first thing they do is hold a vote and immediately elect Islamic State Terrorists who have a plan to wipe out Israel, great start :) All their neighbours puts up guard fences because who the fuck wants to have open borders with islamic militants, they then proceed (instead of aiming for a diplomatic solution) fire rockets, dig tunnels to invade and terrorise/kidnap/torture/kill Israeli's, spread endless anti-israel propaganda, enslave their women who appear to be popping out 5-10 children on average, train those kids to become jihadi's, and continue to hound their closest neighbours, THEN in one of the most dumbest acts of war I've ever seen, invade Israel when they are at their weakest due to a holiday so they can cause the most damage in classic islamic militant manners possible, seemingly forgetting that Israel is not some tribe in Syria they can pick on and massacre.

This is all after they were kicked out of Jordan:

Palestinians were forcefully expelled from Jordan in 1970–1971 during a violent conflict known as Black September

AND restricted on other side of the wall with Egypt:

In recent decades, particularly since the rise of Islamist movements like Hamas (an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood) and ongoing militant insurgencies in the Sinai Peninsula, Egypt's government has restricted the movement of Palestinians

I have no idea how they ended up in the situation they're in, must just be bad luck? 😀

Israel isn’t incredible, its a natural outcome of continued unquestioning investment and support

Give me a break, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Nigeria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Lebanon, these are all muslim majority countries sitting right next to trillion dollar muslim petro-states, where's their highly advanced progressive economies? I'd love to hear "gays leaving melbourne for highly progressive (and incredible :D ) Qatar"

Dubai built a giant dick in the sand, you should ask them why they didn't invest in the thriving business environment of Islamic State Iraq and Syria.

I think the disconnect is your impressed and argue that we should cleave to powerful allies, whereas i’m impressed and argue that we should cleave to those willing to uphold some semblance of moral values

I am to both, Israel is acting towards the Palestiniains very similar to how we would because we share similar moral values, they are the closest to us in the middle east.

As I tried to explain with the "moderate muslims" holding signs like "behead all those who insult the prophet", we simply aren't in the same circumstances as the Israeli's, if that man was your neighbour, who actually went through with his sincere moderate muslim beliefs and beheaded your son/daughter/mother/father, you'd have a very different opinion and so would the people around you.

How about this for a point:

60/40 split and we're not even in an active war with them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum

Imagine if we were back at war like in the 1800's? How close to 0% do you think we could get the Yes vote? j/k we wouldn't even have a vote.

Side note: Interesting how the people closest to living with the Indigenous are the most hostile, while inner cities which are full of rich white people are the most in favour? Funny 😀

In fact I'd argue there's a good chance we'd be worse, Israel has nukes and one of the most powerful armies in the world, it could have completely wiped Palestine off the map, I know if the USA was sitting next to them it would not put up with this shit at all, if Palestinians pulled the same shit they did on Oct 7th to the USA there'd probably be a McDonalds right in the middle of Gaza and a big American flag right now.

So yeah, I think our circumstances are different but not our values, it's very easy to go around and be all high and moral when you're not the one living next to the scariest motherfuckers on the planet.

This is too long already, good chat but this'll be my last post

[–] Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 1 points 5 days ago

All you and I have said in essence doesn't matter.

Their problem is the crimes they are committing in Gaza now. They could be the most enlightened unicorns the world has seen, they are still committing the heinous crime of starvation and mass punishment, and about a third of their 'enemy' seem to be children, you don't wipe your hands of this, and we don't let them.

Israel doesn't have values like our own, maybe at some point the two countries were more aligned in that respect. Our history is sordid, and we continue to have problems and always will. We are changing as a nation, slowly, but i live in a very different country, and better, than i grew up in.

We don't have to choose a best mate in the middle east, thats okay, i never tried to say any were better. We're a world away and can afford to keep all at arms length, thats a choice we can make.

So i think the equivalences you draw aren't useful. Israel is a nation committing crimes against humanity, compare their actions against UN conventions, or the Rome Statute, etc..

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