this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2025
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[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Given that we here in the US are still trying g to work out from under 150 year old rail infrastructure, I don’t think they need to worry about it for a while.

Rail generally lasts longer than roads even if you don’t maintain it. We’ve proven that

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

A feature of rail is very high building costs. If they wasted money on building HSR on a lot of places where it's not needed, this means there's gonna be a debt that never gets paid by the utilization of the rail. Bad investment.

So it's not about maintenance, but the up-front cost.

Not doing an investment where an investment would make a lot of money is of course a kind of reverse of this, but which leads to a similar outcome.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

you're looking only at the return-on-investment of rail as if passengers would have to pay for it with tickets and such. that is not at all the case.

the benefit of rail or any transport infrastructure in fact is the fact that it facilitates the rest of the economy. almost every economy depends a lot on transport, and by making transport possible, the rest of the economy becomes possible, and then that pays takes, and that's the advantage in having transport capabilities.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You could say the same about pretty much any infrastructure. It’s hideously expensive and will never get paid back by utilization.

  • highways
  • local roads
  • bridges
  • air traffic control
  • utilities of most kinds
  • canals
  • flood control
  • erosion mitigation

All are hideously expensive and will never get paid back by utilization.

Are they all bad investments?

I claim they all are critical for their indirect benefits to an economy, a society, and rail is exactly the same.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I would say that there's quite a lot of reason to believe that infrastructure investments can be one of the best ways to help poor people rise economically. Which has obvious paybacks.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/infrastructure/publication/infrastructure-and-poverty-reduction-innovative-policies

This still requires creating infrastructure that is actually needed, otherwise it's just wasting money (which ultimately is just an abstraction over wealth, opportunity, materials, workers' finite time and energy, etc etc).

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

infrastructure investments can be one of the best ways to help poor people rise economically

And specifically consider how much we can help by not requiring all the expenses of owning a car. Transit and intercity rail could be among the best investments when you consider those indirect benefits. Such a shame that short sighted people want them to be profitable in utilization

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

why are you talking about building high speed rail where it's not needed? don't think anyone's advocating for that.