MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
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That's your framing of the situation.
An alternative perspective is that the "pronouns cannot relate to imaginary creatures" is gender gatekeeping.
Drag was potentially trolling, but if nobody ever took the bait, nothing would have happened.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39039162
People brought justifications
Direct attacks are usually removed
I'm am going to be honest with you, I didn't expect you to make this kind of comments
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49571446/20291493
Also, not sure why it's not okay for dbzer0 to have a "our users" stance while you broadly categorize all .ml users as "losers"
"He was (potentially) trolling, but if noone took the bait..."
Ah yes, let's just excuse the inciting actions and blame the targets of harassment!
You are a victim blaming moron, and you've made it perfectly clear right there.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39039162/17029381
People can use whatever pronouns they want and anyone pitching a fit about it are the ones who deserve scrutiny as far as I'm concerned.
Drag always rubbed me the wrong way, always ready to jump right to calling people tankies without much interesting conversation to be had.
If someone is trolling I'm going to ban them when they violate an actual rule, like telling people to kys, because anything else opens up the field for people like Pug to declare who is and isn't trans based on if they like their pronoun choice.
Responding to PugJesus below me as I can't interact due to their ban:
From my POV, you are pitching a fit over the pronouns by harping on about 'not believing dragons are real' - heres an example of you misgendering with 'his' while doing so. That invites extra scrutiny.
in this thread the person was banned for saying "I don't think it's an unfair line to draw. We draw it at what's real and what's not. Gender as a spectrum is real."
you replied in one comment saying
What I conclude from this:
When you are talking about belief in dragons what you are really doing is using that in as a stand-in to say ' only genders that are 'real' are acceptable to use'. That is gatekeeping.
here you are doing it he same routine to a trans woman in that same thread. You called her a child and insane for saying 'you don't get to question someone's identity'.
I don't believe in any magical creatures, but drag and anyone else should be able to use whatever pronouns they want because fuck gender.
I never said Drag wasn't trans. I never said that Drag's neopronoun choice was invalid. I always made an effort to use Drag's pronoun. But lying is the only tool you have, isn't it?
Would it be transphobic to say "I'll use she/her for you but I don't believe you're a woman, as that's against the objective reality of biology"?
I was specifically and repeatedly accused of not using Drag's pronouns, including in the comment I responded to, since that's an easier sell to most people to slander someone on.
Women exist. Dragons do not.
Exist in what sense? Again, is it rooted in something like biology or social assignment in your view, or is it based on the existence of people self-identifying as such? If the former, why do you not take issue with singular they? If the latter, what's the difference between that and "dragon"? Would you argue there are no people who genuinely use "dragon" as their pronoun? There are certainly quite a few who use "fae/faer", so it wouldn't be a significant leap.
In the sense of existing in the real world.
Why on earth would I take issue with a grammatical usage case that predates Shakespeare?
Why would calling themselves something and asking others to call them something inherently make them something a human being literally cannot be on account of it being a fantasy creature?
Words are defined and redefined based on their real world usage, so if there were enough people describing themselves as dragons, the definition could be updated to account for that. Denying or ridiculing novelty or unorthodoxy would hamper progress in any movement, be it for religious freedoms or trans rights.
At the same time that doesn't give carte blanche for any word to mean anything. I could start using the word 'conservative' to mean 'socialist', but it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to force others to maintain that same usage, or even force them to acknowledge the usage's validity. The fluidity of language is not an argument for absolutist individualist interpretations of language, which is nothing less than an argument for the ultimate incoherence of language. Language changes with mass usage, not automatically with individual usage.
Language is a form of communication first, and ornamentation second, not vice-versa.
Indeed.