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When a Christian Makes Contact with an Atheist (infosec.pub)

submitted 1 week ago by Blujayooo@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world

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[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 24 points 1 week ago (26 children)

I'm a Christian pastor happily married to an atheist, AMA.

[–] Zwiebel@feddit.org 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (16 children)

Do you believe your wife will go to hell?

Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 35 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Do you believe your wife will go to hell?

No. I don't believe in all that “you have to confess Jesus as your personal lord and saviour to avoid hell” crap. It's in fact something not very widespread outside evangelicalism. I believe the Cross is working mysteriously, far outside the frontier of the visible Church. A God who condemns people that doesn't recognize him is not a loving God, it's a pervert. I believe that “to confess Jesus as my personal lord and saviour” is a way to live a better life here and now, and I don't expect an eternal reward for that.

Is she agnostic or does she believe there is no god?

I'd say she's agnostic atheist. She doesn't know if God exist, but believes he does not, and in fact doesn't care.

[–] MacAnus@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago

You sound like a very good person.
I think you get what I believe religion is supposed to be about.
And that's nice to see :) keep it up!

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In many christian traditions the "confess Jesus as savior" can also be done after this life when standing before Jesus, basically at the gates of heaven. At that point it's really just a formality, and doing that right now instead of in the next life is exactly what you describe what it means to you: a way to live a better life right now.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But if someone is an atheist and doesn't want anything to do with God, won't God respect their decision?

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I don't know. The Bible don't speak that much after the afterlife. Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly (Luke 17:21), the Old Testament is almost only interested in how to follow God here and now, even the book of Revelation is, if read correctly, more a veiled criticism of the politics of Roman Empire than a prediction. The only one who spoke a lot about the afterlife is Paul, but if he's clear about who will be saved, he's not about who won't. That's why I spoke about a mystery; but I trust God to make the best decision.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Jesus mainly spoke about the Kingdom, which is within us and not something otherworldly

Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. And more about hell than anyone else in the Bible.

Paul is quite clear.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 2:12-16

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:22-25

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I looked to first link, and the first biblical reference was Luke 16:23. It's a parable… not a description of actual hell… I saw enough to know that it's not theologically serious.

The rest of your message is cherrypicking. You can't cite verses without providing any context or analysis, staying on the surface of things, and think you make a point. Again, not theologically serious. You should study the Bible praying, make it resonate with the life of the marginalized people that Jesus came to meet, not just choosing the verses that confirm your preconceptions, or you'll make the Bible saying the contrary of what it says by cherrypicking and staying too literal. Nobody can make this work for you.

Imagine someone who'd come to you and say: “the Bible say that God doesn't exist, look at Ps 14:1 ‘There is no God’!”. Of course this Psalm says the contrary, and it would be easy to prove, just by citing the verse wholly; but what you do is not different, just more subtle.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I don't deny that Jesus came to marginalised people. He came to free them, redeem them, and forgive them. He didn't sit around and say "you do you, live your truth". He said "take up your cross, and follow Me".

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What are you doing, citing verses without understanding them in their context, if not “living your truth”?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Exegesis.

I do understand the context of Jesus' verses. He was very literal on the existence of Hell.

Matthew 8:8-13

[8] But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Okay, I'll bait. What's the context of this text? Or in other words: what's Jesus speaking about?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

He is saying that many gentiles will come to know God and get into heaven, while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

[–] emmanuelw@jlai.lu 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

No, you're reformulating the verse. I'm asking for context. What was the discussion about?

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 5 days ago

He was talking to a centurion and about the salvation of the gentiles who come to The Messiah and damnation of Jews who reject Him.

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