this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2025
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UK Politics

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[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (10 children)

Playing devil's advocate: is she wrong? I've seen plenty of racism based upon colour. Every day almost.

Most supposed anti-Semitism I see is anti-Zionism that the media purposely confuses for their agenda.

Having lived in multiple communities where gypsies and travellers are common, some of which are good friends, the hatred or dislike they experience is much lesser, and often is based on actual events such as stealing or providing services that are sub-par.

[–] Noit@feddit.uk 3 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

Let’s look at her actual words, shall we, satan?

Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.

It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.

She talks about sitting at the back of the bus. Rosa Parks took a stand in 1943. Concurrent to this event, Jewish people, of the Jewish race, were being exterminated in the holocaust. If Diane Abbott is more interested in arguing for a dictionary definition of racism that includes the suffering inflicted on black people but excludes the holocaust, than she is in trying to understand why this would be incredibly offensive to the Jewish community, she can get in the bin.

And if you’re more interested in watering down accusations of antisemitism to mere “anti-Zionism” then you too are more interested in playing with dictionary definitions than you are in calling out actual racism when it actually happens and you can do likewise.

Fortunately you’re just playing devil’s advocate, eh?

[–] manicdave@feddit.uk 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

What she said is so obviously true that her comments biggest flaw is it's redundancy. She's talking about Tomiwa Owolade's words on racism in Britain. A copper isn't going to spot you from 50 yards away and stop you based on the fact that you're Irish or Jewish because they can't see that. Security isn't going to follow you around a shop and hurry you out the door because you're Irish or Jewish because they can't see that.

I hate identity politics and hierarchies of oppression and language pedantry and all that more than the next person. But when you pretend to not understand an argument which is so obvious and valid, it's hard to believe you're here with honest intent.

[–] Patch@feddit.uk 5 points 2 weeks ago

She's talking about Tomiwa Owolade's words on racism in Britain.

She gives three, and only three, examples of racism to illustrate her point:

In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.

Pre-civil rights America, the American slave trade, and Apartheid South Africa are all explicitly not about racism in Britain.

Tomiwa Owolade's points may have been more focused (and more valid), but her own commentary takes it in a wildly unhelpful direction. And it's her commentary that's being criticised, not Owolade's.

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