this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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No I think you're just in an echochamber that didn't wanna go full doomer because of how capitalist the entire world is. You wanted some hope for socialism so you clung onto China for false hope.
With the alternative being, what, exactly? Flaccid, impotent doomerism?
Well the world is almost all neoliberal hell so maybe that'd be better than supporting a fascistic hellscape because they have socialist aesthetics.
I support Cuba and various socialist movements... I don't pretend Xi is a well-meaning person.
Xi isn't China lib, and quit using the word fascism until you learn what it actually means
Being a dictator is when you're appointed by a democratic body and then there is a confirmation vote and the more democratic the body is and the lower the vote against confirmation the more of a dictator you are.
Maybe you should spend like literally any time at all learning about Chinese politics and system of governance because this is flatly untrue.
For your consideration: https://archive.is/RlAtG
Ofc indoctrinated citizens think they're a democracy, they also probably have different understanding of democracy. America isn't a democracy either but people are brainwashed into believing it is. Most of the Americans that choose "not a democracy" in that poll are Republicans that'll say "democracy is mob-rule, we're a Republic!"
Does this look democratic to you?:
Ah, fortunately we have you, the one and only person immune to indoctrination, to tell us ignorant foreigners what is and is not a democracy, because we're just too damn indoctrinated to know for ourselves.
Please you hexshits are like 80% American.
No we are not, thank God. Would hate to have to pay 1000 dollarios a month for my insuline.
I KNOW you people. Chapotraphouse was your origins. I'm a defector of sorts. There was a demographic poll and you were overwhelmingly American (and white). You're still 90% the same audience. What makes you think the subreddit dedicated to an American political podcast wasn't extremely American?
Well shit, the penalty for desertion is execution my son.
Uh this is a
fansite, ma'am/sir/themby
Ngl, original chapo was pretty white cishet, but in the three years we've been stewing here we've gone through some pretty big demographic changes (also like a load of the users got transed)
Also worth noting that the majority of the sub literally just didn't listen to the podcast because its bad - I've been here for years and I've literally never heard a full episode of it. But yeah the radical queer inclusivity of hexbear was what got and kept me in as opposed to any other internet space, and then the hexbears got me to actually read theory along the way.
c'mon, you can do better than this
Even if that were true, the content of Hexbear isn't. Any time spent in thr news mega thread will show that we have comrades from the Balkans, South America, Africa, and from across thr world. And more importantly their perspectives and insights are valued and their posts are appreciated. So even if 80% of Hexbear's casual readership was American, isn't that a good dynamic - a site where the population of one of the most insular and propagandised countries on the planet is exposed to a truly international and diverse range of information and perspectives?
Which is irrelevant, because I'm not
How do you justify dismissing it as indoctrination? And if the majority think of it as a democracy, under what definition or understanding of democracy is the perspective of the majority not of prime importance?
The first part of this I agree with (other than the notion of brainwashing), but I don't understand where you're getting the second part. According to that poll I linked about perceptions of democracy, 73% of US citizens value democracy, which doesn't fit with 51% thinking it's not a democracy, but liking it that way because they think democracy is mob rule.
I don't consider the contentiousness of elections to be of primary importance when evaluating if a government is democratic, but given the measurable advancements that have occurred in China under Xi's leadership, I can buy that he would have such immense support, particularly if there isn't an equally appealing alternative with such a proven track record.
So, all the neoliberal western countries that largely believe their democracies are also democracies?
So, 27% of US citizens don't value democracy? That's half of the 51% that say it's not a democracy. Which means if it wasn't for the 27% largely Republicans that think democracy is mob-rule, around 75% would say America is a democracy. A lot of Americans simply think it's a "constitutional Republic."
I honestly don't care if western neoliberal countries see themselves as democracies or not, or if they are democracies or not, since that's not really my grievance with them anyway. However, in China the idea of democracy that is promoted by the Xi himself is one of majority rule, the same way nearly everybody uses the term. That's the standard that Chinese people are going to be inclined to measure their government against, especially since their government has actively invited them to think of democracy in those terms.
Quoting Xi: "Whether a country is a democracy or not depends on whether its people are really the masters of the country. Democracy is not an ornament to be used for decoration; it is to be used to solve the problems the people want to solve." (from a central conference speech he made in 2021, you can probably find the whole thing if you look)
That doesn't sound far off from "western" notions of democracy, does it? That's the idea of democracy that they're being "indoctrinated" with over there, and what the vast majority of Chinese citizens believe their government lives up to.