this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
427 points (99.5% liked)

chapotraphouse

13473 readers
1 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.

They've been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren't Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it's bots or wumao. Human beings can't possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Considering China is a capitalist state much like America, not sure!

[–] MattsAlt@hexbear.net 48 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Damn where is America imprisoning and executing billionaires alongside harsh anti corruption campaigns in the government, maybe I'll move there

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I don't care if they're holding people accountable for corruption. Why does a country supposably aiming for socialism have BILLIONAIRES in the FIRST PLACE??

[–] RedDawn@hexbear.net 31 points 2 years ago (6 children)

They have them as a byproduct of Deng's reforms which allowed rapid development of the means of production, they need to be managed of course and suppressed by the people's democratic dictatorship, which they are. Eventually development will reach the point where they are no longer useful and can be fully done away with.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] iie@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

it was either embrace partial capitalism or get strangled out of the world economy. Deng's reforms brought a massive influx of foreign investment and expertise.

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Lol fucking NORWAY is less capitalist than China.

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 30 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The wealth of Norway depends on the imperialist white supremacist settler colonial extractive ventures of the West. The wealth of China does not. Simple as.

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

This isn't about wealth. Does Norway have 12 year olds in factories? Tell me why Norway gives workers 3x more paid time off? Don't you think China's rich enough to make things better for workers?

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Does Norway have 12 year olds in factories?

Literally yes, in third world countries.

3x more paid time off

They can afford to without the threat of economic domination by burgerstan, also see point 1 above.

China also is making things better for workers, moreso than America or even the declining Nordic states.

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Oh I see, China can't afford human rights

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh I see, human rights abuses are fine so long as you export them to non white countries.

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Which China totally doesn't do too. FYI I'm not saying Norway is good.

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You literally were saying that Norway was better because it exports its human rights abuses.

[–] CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So? You're still saying that human rights abuses are better when you export them into non-whites.

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago

Wtf since when was giving workers less paid time off as a state under siege than one of the richest imperialist profiteers a "violation of human rights".

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago

By what metric?

[–] brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago (12 children)

They've made infinitly more progress eliminating billionaires than your flavour of socialism has

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] MattsAlt@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Dogmatism and ideological purity are blinding you. It certainly should be a conversation about why billionaires exist in China, especially as they strengthen their safeguards against capital flight, but their existence alone does not discredit the great strides of progress China has made under SwCC in under a century. There are few examples of such a large mass of people seeing such substantive improvements in their lives. No matter the system, such dramatic change will result in unforseen consequences because there is so much change occuring. The measure of the response though is what is important: protecting themselves from capital flight, placing party leadership within corporations, focusing on carbon reduction through reduced pollution, tree planting, and alternative energy sources are all measurable ways the government is correcting. Where else do you see such response by those in power for their citizens? The Chinese approval for their government is incredibly high, and this is why

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago

Have you done any reading on Socialism with Chinese characteristics?

Have you read "On the Governance of China"?

[–] ShareThatBread@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

Profits of a corporation benefit its shareholders, usually concentrated to very few individuals.

Who are the beneficiaries when the profits go to the state?

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

Capitalism is when you execute capitalists for undermining the will of the state

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

Li: At the moment, the Chinese the party state has proven an extraordinary ability to change. I mean, I make the joke: “in America you can change the political party, but you can’t change the policies. In China you cannot change the party, but you can change policies.” So, in the past 66 years, China has been run by one single party. Yet the political changes that have taken place in China in these past 66 years have been wider, and broader, and greater than probably any other major country in modern memory.

Pilger: So in that time China ceased to be communist. Is that what you’re saying?

Li: Well, China is a market economy, and it’s a vibrant market economy. But it is not a capitalist country. Here’s why: there’s no way a group of billionaires could control the Politburo as billionaires control American policy-making. So in China you have a vibrant market economy, but capital does not rise above political authority. Capital does not have enshrined rights. In America, capital — the interests of capital and capital itself — has risen above the American nation. The political authority cannot check the power of capital. That’s why America is a capitalist country, and China is not.

from https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/