this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
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This suggests democrats do oppose bad things in the first place. When masses of protesters say “defund the police” Democrats say “we’re with BLM, but we interpret “defund the police” to mean “fund the police.” The Alaska pipeline that wasn’t going to happen under trump? Biden makes it happen. Biden campaigned on climate and ended up opening up vast swathes of public land to oil drilling. The democrats said they’d be better on immigration, but they’re worse than trump. Not because trump was good, but that it gets worse every administration whichever party’s in power. They didn’t “insufficiently oppose”Iraq, they were cheerleading bush’s invasion. They don’t “insufficiently oppose” Libya, Syria, or Ukraine, they are the main force behind those wars. Both parties are terrible and it’s absurd to act like dems are “a net good if small” which is exactly the narrative you seem to be promoting. You say blue states having abortion access is a win when that’s a given, but they had the chance to codify roe and chose not to. There is a reason why more people don’t vote than do for either major party.
You're talking about bad things Democrats do. I'm not arguing with any of that. I've said multiple times that Democrats are not good.
What I'm talking about is the few good things Democrats do, and the areas where just being a warm body who's not a Republican makes them better (think not redefining curricula to say slavery was job training). Americans look at that stuff and see a difference between the parties, and to argue otherwise is out of touch.
Imagine two huge piles of shit, but one has a $20 bill in it and the other had a used needle. People here keep saying "they're both piles of shit!," which I agree with. What I disagree with is the idea that both piles are exactly the same. If you really need twenty bucks and you can choose one or the other, the difference is obvious.
I could argue that “good things” the Republicans did as well. Trump pulled US troops out of Somalia. But that doesn’t make him a good president nor even an acceptable one
Same things with the Dems
No one is saying the few good things Democrats do means they're a good party. You're just picking fights.
No, I’m not picking fights. I’m just angry seeing a defense of a group that helps commit genocide.
Then go be angry in a thread where that's actually happening
Or, maybe where everyone has habitually make excuses for genocidal colonialists because they supposedly increase the quality of the life of the working class?
I'm frankly not convinced they're not a colonizer themselves with all the settler-borne mind-virus they're peddling
I’m not not convinced they aren’t but rather I am convinced they are
The material reality to Americans is that they can get an abortion in California and not Florida because of party control. They have paid sick leave in Minnesota but not Texas for the same reason.
I'm talking about their material reality because the post is about domestic U.S. politics.
But the material condition in the US was also that state employees had a pay increase in Florida. So they also see that. If we are pointing at the tiny minuscule things that the Dems do for the working class, we can also find the tiny minuscule things that the Republicans do
Yeah and if you count up all the material things each party does for Americans, Democrats come out ahead. You don't have to walk sixth graders through stuff like this.
I’m out of touch with the two thirds of Americans that don’t vote democrat?
Most non-voters aren't carefully examining all political options and making a conscientious decision to abstain from mainstream politics. They're not voting for material reasons, like:
So if they were examining all their options voting democrat is what they should do?
Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?
Nowhere in this thread am I saying anything like "voting for Democrats is the best option." I'm saying (for about the 30th time now) that there are real, material benefits Democrats provide over Republicans. Saying there is no difference between paid sick leave or no paid sick leave, or abortion access or no abortion access, makes us look stupid or out of touch.
I look forward to having to explain for the 30th time that this does not make Democrats good, does not excuse what Democrats support abroad, and these are not even things Democrats universally support. Can't wait to argue over more stuff I'm not even saying.
If there are real material benefits democrats provide over the alternative isn’t the logical conclusion from that that democrats are better than republicans and worth supporting as a “lesser evil?” If there are two groups and one kills 19 people and another kills 20 but gives a couple random people ten dollars do you say “yes both killed people, but the second group made a material difference in some other people’s lives, you’ve got to acknowledge that, stop pretending they’re the same?”
You know this is a bullshit argument. Do you see how dishonest it is to know it's bullshit and try to pin it on someone who's is not even close to making it?