cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24264479
this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025
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And the progressives lost to the Democrats in purely leftist contests in 2022, 2018 and other elections.
Switching over to a group who can't even consistently win a Senator or House seat is the wrong move.
Until you show some political muscle, I don't trust you either with defeating Trump or other groups. Prove yourselves in 2026 if you want me to take you seriously by 2028.
The only lesson I learned is that the far left are backstabbers who will chant Free Palestine and fuck up their own party, rather than come together to fight Trump.
But golly it sure seems like going Right worked well for Republicans!
Funny how I heard the same concerns about Trump lol.
Nothing like a Third Way enlightened centrist who thinks we should water down factual policy to cater with ignorance on the right. It's worked so well! Back to Hillary, amirite?
In fact let's just run it back with a Hillary / Harris ticket, only this time we go to the right of Republicans!
I'm a former rural Republican by the way.
Your concerns don't matter vs the media machine that is Facebook, WashPo, LA Times, TikTok, Twitter and more.
The simple fact is that the Left has lost every single media. Literally all of them.
I completely agree, but I don't believe these points are mutually exclusive.
We lost them partly (but not exclusively) because we never stood by what we believed in. We just looked like Republican-lite; a spineless version of Republicans.
You lost them because Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post.
Or what? You think Washington Post's opinion changed from left-leaning to right-leaning because of Gaza or some shit?
Nah, I believe that if the Democrats actually called out the problem that is the rich, like Koch brothers, like Murdoch, Like Trump, like Musk, like Bezos as far back as 2008 and truly road on a hope & change progressive economic populism that maybe we wouldn't have arrived to the point where the rich could just buy out every legitimate platform for journalism out there in the first place.
This was decades in the making and weak, watered-down response to obvious corruption meant inches turned into miles.
Democracy is as much about persuasion as it is representation if not more so. Democrats have always been atrocious at even trying to persuade the electorate. Instead every cycle we partake in the definition of insanity, trying to reach the Ignorant and naive electorate on the terms defined by how Republicans have persuaded them. Naturally this moves the Overton Window rightward over...and over... And over again.
You said we've moved so far right that you're practically a Dem now. Well now you know why.
Wake me up when my fellow Democrats start believing in something. When the keys of power within the party are actually handed to the ones who care, the progressives and not used to undermine them at every turn.
Oh, as if Bernie Sanders and AOC are silent on the issue or something?
The argument is well known in the public. Republicans simply label that thinking as socialist or communist and then the far left is easily shut down.
But hey, maybe if you talk more about the rich again, Occupy Wall Street will happen again and increase the power of the Tea Party even harder. Look at history and think about who actually benefited from that argument.
You're throwing many peanuts from the peanut gallery without actually offering a more viable alternative solution. I'm alllll ears. So what is it, go to the right of Republicans? Oppress some minorities? What shall it be? Capitulate with fascists? Meet lunacy half way?
Talk to me.
Yeah. That's the fucking point of this topic. Are you even looking at what topic you are in?
But yeah, let's demonize the Democrat candidates even more. That way they're even weaker come 2026 and 2028. Brilliant.
So.... No better alternative solution?
Okay then.
I said it right there and right then.
Support the fucking candidate. All this backstabbing shit (see cartoon above) is not useful. Yall didn't support the candidate and then we lost. In contrast, Republicans can support Trump.
The thing is, you can't just magically will this to be, for it fundamentally misunderstands the ideological differences of the left and eight. Republicans have always been more tribalistic. It's easier because their entire banner revolves around conformity as opposed to solidarity.
I didn't backstab any candidate. I wanted Sanders, but I voted for Hillary; I wanted 3 other candidates in 2020 but voted for Biden. I voted for Harris even though I thought Whitmer or Michelle would easily win.
Besides the issue isn't even that Democrats didn't vote; it's that Independents and Republicans weren't convinced by the policy wonk buzzwords like, "opportunity economy."
I'll ask you rhetorically: Do you know what one of the biggest determinants for who someone voted for was this election?
For anyone reading this, this means we don't donate enough money. That's the only "political muscle" liberals care about, even if they just flush those dollars down the toilet.
If you're the fucking adults, then you should be able to beat someone like Trump, right? A billion fucking dollars you wasted to fucking lose.
Don't lecture me on "political muscle" when liberals can't even beat Trump
Uh, no. This fucking stupid idea that you can pretend that Trump or what he represents is "easy" to defeat is the most bullshit I've ever seen. Keep living in a fucking delusion where its "easy" to win vs the far right movement.
If you defeating a boorish, racist idiot isn’t easy then the Democrats need to up their fucking game.
Did you help the Democrats last election?
I didn’t realize it was solely my responsibility to unfuck this country. I thought that’s what they paid their political consultants a billion dollars for.
Love the liberal attitude of blaming an individual rather than the institution.
But, yeah, me as someone with no political power and the inability to cut seven-figure checks is the problem. Not the assholes who insisted the economy was fine and courted Cheneys.
With all due respect, the liberal attitude is failing and you're not helping it. This discussion is depressing and proves to me why yall are losing and why its probably more beneficial to me to stay Republican for the scraps of political favors.
If you can't support your side like Republicans can support Trump, then you cannot win. Do you seriously think Republicans care about abstract moral values? Or is this a more simple matter of working together even with people who are fucking racist to claw a bit more power.
Power is power. Until Democrats figure that out, you aren't going to obtain any.
I've been voting blue no matter who in every election for the last 24 years and it still isn't helping.
If that's the case, maybe progressives should've beat... Anybody?
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the inauguration of a literal fascist tomorrow