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I mean it ended with France becoming a democracy so... Yeah. A lot of nonsense happened, but modern France exists as a result of the French revolution.
Yeah after going back and forth for 80 years. Many of which were incredibly bloody.
I'll take that over eating boot.
Oh good, thank you for your sacrifice.
Wait? You want me to live in a civil war hellhole too? Fuck no, fuck you. There are peaceful ways to do this.
Err... France appears to be doing fine. Are you ok dummy? Do you know how to read?
After 80 years of switching back and forth between Republics and Monarchies. With mob violence, civil wars, and brutal crackdowns. Which mostly killed commoners, not nobles. It wasn't until 1870 that they stabilized as a Republic, because they lost a war to the Germans.
We could do that or we could follow the example of the many countries who defended their rights or claimed them by filling the streets with people.
I'm not the one with a reading comprehension problem.
Worse, I believe you have a comprehension problem.
Multiple great wins for their citizens, with universal healthcare, a great aerospace lineage, reliable and low cost energy to help their industries grow, low to no cost higher education. A robust, healthy farm industry, high regard for planetary health among citizens, and a very reasonable work-life balance.
All they had to do was demand it. You're too chickenshit to even dream about it. Pathetic.
You could say the same about quite a few countries, without the 80 years of fuckery.
So no I don't want to fight your war. It's a stupid idea that only those who've never seen war would come up with. How about instead of calling a combat veteran a coward you try something else first. This country has tried nothing in regards to political reform platforms and you want to jump straight to violence like it's going to be a fucking Hollywood movie. The only thing you're buying is shit and blood. Then you get to find out that war drives people to strongman leaders because they just want the fighting to be over. They don't care about rights or anything like that after years of fighting. It's honestly a fucking miracle France turned out that way.
And it's a bit weird you keep focusing on them instead of other success stories like Scandinavia or South Korea. None of them required a long period of struggle to realize those things.
You never heard of the Korean war? How much quiet fighting Scandanavian countries went through with the USSR, never mind the 11 wars Sweden and Russia have been in? None of that influenced economic and cultural decisions over the course of history? Really?
I'm also not a warhawk, and would prefer to build society as the engineer I am, not to fight. But our common enemy is wealthy, and motivated to destroy the planet by a mental disease they won't admit to. I'd rather not be violent, but it draws inexorably towards us, we cannot make decisions halfway through collapse.
Enjoy your stolen valor, served alongside a well-broiled cut of historical ignorance 🙄
We're not talking about every war France has been in. We're talking about their internal struggle. And South Korea's liberalization happened in 1987 after massive protests filled the street.
If you want to call other people ignorant then you really should go read about the subjects here before you so happily resign yourself to a lifetime of war. I don't know how old you are but every war hawk I've ever listened to used that same exact line. "I want peace but the violence is just unavoidable!" Every. Fucking. Time. From Kipling to Bush.
Yet here we stand in the mire, and nothing changes. The consequences of inaction will be real.
It's been fun, I don't give a shit about you or convincing you. We'll make moves for team human in spite of folks like you who keep hoping things will improve.
Oh it's war for team human now. I'd say that's a new one but it isn't. George Bush used that one in 2002.
Yep. Not war, more like excision.
Oh another one. You say you aren't a war hawk but damned if that doesn't sound exactly like some bangers from the past.
"It's just regime change"
""They'll be home by Christmas!"
Yep. I'm not ashamed of advocating destruction of the destroyers. Physics doesn't give a fuck, planet's getting too hot.
You're not going to solve the suffering of people under climate change by replacing it with the suffering of war.
I never said that, dummy.
I'm saying we gotta tear down these structures which reward destruction of our planet, oust the execs responsible for making these systems (McKinsey et al), and be prepared to counter armed police resistance as they are against making those changes.
Oh no I know you didn't. You believe you can have all the violence with none of the suffering.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Are you the same person I've been talking with all day?
No longer. Your illogical responses now go to the machine's void.
Enjoy.
Filling the streets with people, on its own, doesn't do jack shit. It's an implied threat and you need to be willing to follow up on it with action or you're not getting anywhere. Also what do you intend to do when/if the government shoots the people filling the streets? Of course peaceful change is the best option, but it doesn't always, or even most of the time, work, and in that case you have no option except to capitulate or resort to violence.
If we actually reach that point then we reach it. But if we jump to it then we have utterly failed.
Cope
Remind me how peaceful and great the previous 800 years were for your average French peasant?
Didn’t they have more holidays back then
Oh you just care about French peasants? God forbid you check out any other country and what they did instead. It must be fucking violence and war with you people.
I’m fairly confident France was by far one of the nicer more progressive places to live, I don’t think your argument improves if you talk about a russian serf. Britain might be a good example, but Britain absolutely liberalized because they were afraid of the same violence - the threat becomes a lot more real when your neighboring royalty lost their heads.
Sure, except from what I've read most liberalization we care about didn't happen until the 20th century, at least 50 years after the 1848 uprisings, and at least 100 years after the French Revolution. That speaks to a certain lack of urgency. But no, there were commoners all over Europe, and the world. The French were not special. We even have modern examples of getting out from under dictatorships and oligarchies. They mostly involve having so many people in the street that it's impossible to stop them. I can count the number of modern armed rebellions that worked on one hand, and they're a puppet of Turkey now.
The only thing a French style revolution is going to bring us is battles with no prisoners, political inquisitors committing mass murder, and foreign troops trying to maintain a semblance of order near Mexico and Canada to contain the violence and possibly secure our nuclear warheads. Then people are going to be tired of all that and they'll run to the nearest strongman. In the best case scenario those guys will make an alliance and actually end the fighting. In the worst case scenario we balkanize like Afghanistan and then everyone supports a theocracy because at least most of us are Christian and it's unifying. Except it's the worst most fundamentalist version because it's led by a strongman type too.
They say politics and economics are unique sciences because you can't run experiments properly. But we can absolutely dissect history and figure out what to avoid.
You're skipping over the time immediately following the French Revolution... You know, when it became a dictatorship?
I included that in the "nonsense" part. A lot of bad followed the French revolution, but a lot of good did too and the result was a much more free France even during the Bourbon Restoration.