I feel so bad for Ukraine more than Americans. The vast majority either voted for him or at least not against him. But the Ukrainians? Them developing nukes seems to be the only way out of this

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 34 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They had nukes. They got rid of them in exchange for assurances from Russia that they would leave them alone.

It's obviously more complicated than that, but that's essentially what it boils down to.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I think you got that wrong enough it warrants a correction...

They gave them up for assurances that Russia and the USA would protect them if they were attacked.

Edit: that's why the USA is giving them weapons, they're honoring the deal, or at least trying to, not 100% sure on specifics, I'm sure it was vague on what protecting them would entail.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So did you.

US agreed to bring it before the UNSC, not to protect them. Russia has veto powers.

'93 Budapest memorandum off the top of my head if anyone wants to look it up and bring the quote forward.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

wiki says

Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

what assistance would that not be if not protecting them in some way or another?

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago

Strongly worded tweets?

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 8 points 9 months ago

FWIW, my partner is Ukrainian and I asked what's the general mood in the Ukrainian circles. Apparently the unpredictability of Trump is seen as a potential positive. There was quite a lot of disillusionment about the fact that Harris would have continued with the Biden's approach focused on soft politics and weapons given drop by drop.

In fact, the general public was quite unhappy with the cautious american support. If some of the weapons were given much earlier and all at once, the war could now be going very differently.

I don't know if this is now building a narrative that doesn't make you lose hope or if it's the reality. For sure the vibe was for Harris before the elections, but it was definitely as clear cut (due to the above).

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

American guy here and I feel similarly. Things are going to get bad for anyone not toeing the party line here soon, but the grunts in the mud just got the worst possible news and that has to be demoralizing.

They housed plenty of nukes for the USSR but can’t build their own (yet).Even if they did it becomes a MAD standoff between them, Moscow and a Moscow friendly USA, which is fucking mind blowing after so many years of the Cold War. I think they’d be better off looking to the EU for jets and artillery to hold the line, I really fear that we’ll start to ship armor to the conscript side not the volunteers.