this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
808 points (86.3% liked)
BestOfLemmy
9417 readers
19 users here now
Manual curation of great Lemmy discussions and threads
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yes, we all know that's your motivation
I voted for Biden because I wanted to stop fascism. I hated America, but I figured the world would suffer from a Trump presidency.
Then Biden did genocide.
The world suffers and fascism is already here. You're just voting for red or blue flavors. Death to America, I won't do it anymore.
"I hate genocide - but death to America"
Gonna assume you're a troll...which makes me the idiot for commenting
The US was founded on settler-colonial genocide. Surely you know Hitler was inspired by the reservations? Read a fucking book.
You're right but you're still an asshole. If you think Biden was bad, you should know that things can always get worse. It's entirely likely that Trump starts a war with Iran alongside Israel and surrenders Ukraine to Russia. Him using nukes is on the table too. It's too big a risk. That's where we are at. Risk minimization.
Biden is already helping Israel aggress against Iran! They're the most violent state in the region and the US is enabling their ability to start WW3 by provoking all their neighbors. It's already a regional war and it's going to get worse no matter who is elected.
As for Ukraine, we could have already had a negotiated peace deal. Instead, Biden and the Democrats want to fight to the last Ukrainian and so they sabotaged peace talks and blew up the Nord Stream Pipeline. They have no one to blame but themselves for the current situation in Ukraine, and it's their fault that Ukraine will be in an even worse position when Trump steals the election.
They never wanted Ukraine to win anyway. The purpose of the war was to let Russia bleed itself of blood and treasure. If they wanted the war to actually end they'd have given Ukraine the support it actually needs, but they would never and will never do that.
All of that said? If I really though Democrats were the lesser evil I'd vote for them. They're doing genocide, marching us to WW3, don't give a shit about meeting our climate goals, and are happy to let Republicans hurt us to help them win over votes. Fuck the Democrats, death to America, and when Trump steals the election you'll be on my side in the resistance anyway. Why wait?
Trump would make this worse in every respect. Trump can't steal the election if he loses in a landslide. Votes from people like you could make this happen.
Does Harris seem to be running a campaign that will beat Trump "in a landslide"? Is that really how the election is looking to you?
That's not what they said.
Sure sounded like it. I just want to be clear: It's not going to be a landslide. It's going to be nail-bitingly close. People shouldn't lie to themselves.
It's a call for votes as increasing distance between Harris and trump counts represent increasing the challenge of stealing the election.
"A landslide" represents the Highwater mark of the point, wherein it is completely impossible for trump to steal, and is illustrative in that it identifies the goal.
Does it look like we're going to reach that goal? Is Harris running the kind of campaign that can actually obtain a landslide?
Who knows. That's not what's being discussed.
Yes it is! They literally said that votes from "people like me" would make a landslide.
That's a joke. Most of the people like me are fringe and irrelevant. We can't give her a landslide, even if all of .ml and lemmygrad and hexbear voted for Harris.
She will not get a landslide because she is running a bad campaign. It has nothing to do with a few irrelevant leftists.
I checked the above chain, and don't see landslide aside from the comment you.and I are discussing. Perhaps it's elsewhere but not in the chain I'm referring to.
It's literally the last thing they said.
Re read my point.
They do not claim in that statement that a landslide is coming.
They are suggesting that if progressives voted Democrat, that a landslide COULD be more possible.
And I'm suggesting that Harris is not running the kind of campaign that can get progressives to vote for her.
I'm also suggesting that "people like me" probably aren't very common in the US. For one, I believe we should be giving critical support to Hamas and Hezbollah and Ansar Allah in their protracted people's struggle against the Zionist settler-colonial entity.
👍
Nobody with a vote is irrelevant. It is simply too big a risk to let Trump win again. We need every last vote. We need all the leftists, communists, anarchists, whoever. It isn't about supporting the system or Harris. It's about stopping an imminent catastrophe.
Every Palestinian father is my father. Every Palestinian mother is my mother. Every sibling is my sibling, cousin is my cousin.
I won't vote for genocide. I won't. I'd rather kill myself. Just listening to the daily horrors coming from the Strip make me want to die. There's already catastrophe! So many children starving or getting limbs amputated or being sniped in the head by IOF.
I've listened to so many people beg for their lives. I've seen so many bodies.
I hate this country I hate this country I hate this country I HATE THIS COUNTRY
Fascism is here. Genocide is here. The catastrophe can not be stopped because THE UNITED STATES IS THE CATASTROPHE.
And it will be worse if Trump becomes president. You can help stop that by voting. If you don't vote, you aren't resisting this coming to pass.
Unless Trump fucks it up and causes Israel to lose. Unless Trump triggers a popular backlash like he did in 2020 and causes another historical protest movement. Unless Democrats become a real opposition party again and refuse to help him do genocide.
We can't actually predict what will happen, so I'm just voting with my conscience instead of trying to play 5D chess with my vote.
You don't need 5D chess to know that Trump would be worse. We have already seen it. Only last time he had sane people limiting his destruction. Now the lunatics are running the asylum.
We already saw that he didn't destroy democracy or start WW3. You can credit that to "sane people" limiting him but the fact is that what we saw wasn't the Fourth Reich. It was just a shitty Republican president.
The first cyanide pill didn't kill me, so the second won't either...
Alternatively, the sky didn't fall last time so it probably won't fall this time.
If you remember that parable, the sky actually did fall that last time.
Also, for the 1.2 million Americans who died from Covid, the sky did fall last time.
If you remember the lesson of that parable, no one believes the chicken when the sky falls and the chicken has no one to blame but himself. You can't keep saying it's the most important election of our lifetimes because we stop believing it.
And maybe the sky falls this time, but it's the chicken's fault that we don't believe it.
The lesson is also not to ignore a message of obvious danger because the messenger is flawed.
That's definitely not why people use Chicken Little as an Aesop. The lesson is that if you lie over and over, people won't believe you when it matters.
I certainly don't.
Then judge by actions, not words. Since you care so much about Palestinians, how about voting for a candidate that is part of an administration that allows them to seek asylum in the US like Harris. Meanwhile Trump's whole thing is expelling immigrants and he initiated a Muslim ban the last time he was in office. Surely saving some Palestinians vs saving none is worth a vote?
Would you vote for half your family to be killed so the other half could maybe be spared? How do you choose which family members get to live and die? How would you live with yourself.
I plan to resist whoever is elected. Maybe you'll join me, instead of just waiting another four years to vote again.
In this scenario there is no third option where nobody dies. Either half your family dies or they all die. Sometimes all the power you have is saving who you can.
By all means, resist whoever is elected. Harris would cause fewer problems to fight over. By letting Trump win, you're just making it harder on everyone.
What you can do is take your struggle outside the ballot box, because there's no hope in electoralism. No matter who wins we can defeat them, and at least if Trump wins the liberals will join us instead of just sitting around at home to wait for the next election.
There is hope for the Palestinians who would be given asylum under Harris, but apparently your ego is more important to you than they are.
Oh so it's okay to exterminate the population of Gaza as long as a few are able to escape to the US.
Also, have you noticed that Palestinians aren't being given asylum right now?
Not voting won't stop the genocide. Voting might. Simple as that.
Voting for genocide won't stop genocide either. Harris has made it abundantly clear that she will support Israel no matter what.
The only recourse for us is to defeat the US.
As you said, you can defeat the US regardless of who wins, but if Harris wins Palestinians will have more options to take refuge.
Palestinians aren't being given asylum right now. Trump just said the quiet part out loud.e
And honestly, I'm pessimistic about us being able to resist Harris. We certainly failed to resist Biden. It can certainly be done, but there's a gulf of difference between "we can do it" and "we will do it." That's why I also pointed out that if Trump wins the liberals will join us instead of just sitting around at home to wait for the next election.
So you won't even lift a finger to take a chance of saving Palestinians. You'll just sit on your couch and let them die.
Red fascists despise minorities and will do everything in their power to ensure we suffer.
I won't lift a finger to vote for genocide. You can twist yourself into ideological knots to convince yourself that voting for genocide will save Palestinians, but I see the truth. The only chance Palestinians have is if the US and Israel are defeated.
Which president is more likely to lose against the Axis of Resistance?
Neither is going to lose. People are too comfortable. They have too much to lose to join a fight like that. Its delusional to think otherwise.
The largest protest movement in US history happened under Trump. People aren't that comfortable, and you yourself probably believe Trump is going to make a lot of people very uncomfortable.
And that protest movement accomplished nothing.
They burned a police station down. That's not something people do when they're too comfortable.
It was a revolutionary moment, there just wasn't an organized political force or party to take control of the situation and push forward an agenda. It was merely more of the same leaderless horizonalism that characterized the 2010s. That shit doesn't work, but that doesn't mean nothing else was possible. We won't have a revolution just because people are uncomfortable. It requires organizing, which is what we should be doing right now and immediately after Trump steals the election.
They were uncomfortable because of Covid. That's not likely to happen again soon. They were the most widespread protests this country has had since Vietnam (at least) and they accomplished nothing. The government has those kinds of protests figured out and can crush them or make them irrelevant. Nothing is going to change until people are willing to risk their own lives.
Yes.