this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
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Philosophy

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I was reading a comment thread recently.

One commenter stated that they are aware of the people who are "dumber" than them, and if they are not aware the person they are talking to is either similar in intelligence or smarter than they are.

So my question is, do you have this awareness?

Are you conscious of your relative standing in the intelligence hierarchy around you?

And a side point, can you tell a smart person is acting dumb to fit in with those around them?

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[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

You could easily argue that high EI has caused more human suffering than anything else.

Being highly charismatic (high EI), means you can get others to follow you. You can manipulate and mislead.

Not every high EI person is morally good.

Specifically on the global warming comment, scientists at the oil companies knew about and wrote reports about the global warming potential in the 1970's, they knew it was bad. Their bosses (theoretically higher EI leaders) kept it quiet...

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 1 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I haven't read deeply enough into EI yet to get into the psychopath issue, but e.g. this and others seem to suggest that not only do psychopaths have wobbly EI scores depending on whether they want to participate or not, but that those tests are not good to begin with, reflecting more whether someone is willing to give the socially acceptable answer, or dare to (admit to being) different. In either case, I was thinking before more along the lines of an "emotional health" than actual processing ability, so I guess I was wrong about the definition of EI, though it's nonetheless interesting (to me:-) to see how central that issue apparently is.

Even so, "Power" is defined as the ability to do work. IQ has given us nuclear technology, which unlike EI grants us a power that we never had before - the ability to end human habitation on this (or any specific) planet. Thus IQ can be misused as well. EI grants people power too, but either way it's up to the (ab)user to decide how they want to use their power, regardless of its source. And if EI really has caused more harm & suffering than IQ, then that is all the more evidence that it is more powerful.

But perhaps this is all a false dichotomy - if IQ and EI are components of a vector, then is IQ the amplitude and EI is the orientation? So like, IQ makes a gun but EI is the one who decides who the weapon gets pointed at - maybe even back at ourselves? Importantly, IQ is societally cumulative, so before we made the gun, we still had access to a knife, and before that a rock, and before that our fists. But maybe EI is societally cumulative as well? That part I'm not certain about, except so many people lack it (but then again so many lack IQ as well:-), that it seems more difficult to preserve and pass on between generations.

Which might not be true except locally in our history - i.e. with the recent (in historical timescales) advent of the internet, knowledge (IQ) became much more readily available, but now that we are in the mis-information era, that may no longer be true moving forward. "Secret knowledge", like that vaccines actually work and help you live for nearly a hundred years, rather than being witchcraft among peoples who if they live to be thirty may be considered "elderly" (bc who wants an aging worker class slave, possibly actually learning things and as a result getting "uppity"). Perhaps EI has always been more along those lines - some things work well, others don't, and the truth being buried amidst the misinformation, hence (safe-)guarded and preserved by fewer people within each population? I dunno, that's getting too theoretical, but I found the thought interesting at least:-).

In any case, whether my analogy with a vector is way off base or not - perhaps it is too specific and it is rather more like IQ and EI are simply different routes to Power, the ability to change things via different methods - anyway, it does seem that any discussion of IQ lacks something crucial if it does not also include EI as well.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If I was going to map something like ability in vector space; I would put IQ and EI on orthogonal axis. Each a component of the overall ability vector.

But to this you would have to add (just for mental parts), components of memory (storage and recall), curiosity, how do you measure creativity? The overall vector becomes the unique position in n-space, where n is the number of components you choose to measure.

knowledge (IQ) became much more readily available

Just a note knowledge and IQ are not the same. From psychology today:

IQ tests seek to measures a variety of intellectual skills that include verbal, non-verbal and spatial.

From my reading over the years, IQ tests have been modified many times to try to remove any specific references to knowledge. One example is the removal of the question of "what colour are rubies?" this was because it unfairly penalized poor people who may never have seen a ruby.

I think your musing around different routes to power, is probably not far off base. If you are really high in either IQ or EI you probably have high potential to gain power (just different types).

This discussion has gone off on a wonderful tangent :)

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This discussion has gone off on a wonderful tangent :)

This I feel deserves its own separate reply. THIS is what Reddit (supposedly, though before I joined it) was supposed to be about - connecting people so that they could have enjoyable conversations about topics of interest. Ofc, as with any wide open playground area, it quickly became overrun by both cyberbullies and literal children, who now derail every attempt at conversation over there, with smarty-sounding (to them) replies like "show your references", "no You show Your references", "NO, ~why~ ~am~ ~I~ ~shouting~?, YOU SHOW YOUR REFERENCES", and now there basically is no reason to ever go to Reddit, as it is merely an energy-draining profound waste of time. (I am speaking from one POV ofc, which is obviously biased, as I did not traverse the entirety of Reddit so can only say what I saw, and inferred from others talking, and anyway speaking of a general trend, which does not imply that there were not some small corners acting as pocket hold-outs against the general trends.)

This is the hope that the Fediverse offers: after Huffman did... what he did, those of us with a conscience and/or who could see the writing on the wall left (+ those of us who were going to leave anyway b/c there simply was no longer any point to remaining).

These types of conversations - with respect, with intellectual curiosity, based on facts - are sadly rare even here. But they do happen, unlike Reddit, which is really notable, imho.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, I was involved in a bunch of Reddit communities that were really good.

But it go to the point where it shit the bed; it was time to leave. I was happy to find Lemmy. I haven't been back to Reddit in around 6 months.

I don't do algorithmic social media. So Lemmy is really up my alley.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago

https://medium.com/@max.p.schlienger/the-cargo-cult-of-the-ennui-engine-890c541cebcb is a really good read about that. e.g. Lemmy can be bad as well, even if to a significantly lesser degree.

Also while on Reddit I found myself becoming angrier, more combative in my argumentation, less empathetic and kind, etc. Trolls cause that effect - it's definitely no bueno. And sometimes literal teenagers can act like trolls, without even really meaning to or trying at it, just not thinking about it.

That was when I gave up my pride of being willing to listen to literally everyone - it's just flat not worth it, it is harmful to me, not helpful even for them, and perpetuates a cycle of negativity.

And Lemmy definitely requires a heavy hand on the block button, I have found!:-) But then after all that effort, in the midst of the noise, occasionally some worthwhile people and conversations can come through.

So don't be too afraid to block people here. I wouldn't do that for someone who is unintelligent, but I would most definitely do it for someone who consistently engages in trolling behavior, intelligent or no.

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