this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2024
71 points (96.1% liked)

politics

25399 readers
2037 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Genocidal regimes can buy candidates in the US.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So, they can still, but the point of the article is that it's becoming less and less true over time. AIPAC seems to have picked on the weakest candidates and not made an attempt to challenge some of their most vocal critics.

The American electorate is still fine with genocide, but the minority that doesn't like it is steadily growing and has become bigger than I think a lot of old-school political people realize.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, they can still, but the point of the article is that it’s becoming less and less true over time.

Sure, they're buying candidates in the open and lemmy's pro-genocide centrists gloat about it, but it's ok because they're picking their battles!

The American electorate is still fine with genocide,

Got polling for that, or do you just like claiming that a majority of people agree with you?

but the minority that doesn’t like it is steadily growing and has become bigger than I think a lot of old-school political people realize.

Incrementalism is moral bankruptcy itself.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I have absolutely no idea why you keep insisting that I like genocide (or Israel buying candidates?). It makes it pointless to talk to you because you are attacking points of view that have nothing to do with what I think. I just don't want to have an extensive argument about what it is that I believe with someone telling me, no, you don't, you believe this other thing instead. That's the reason I have generally given up on talking to you; I'm not sure what I was thinking just now. Mostly I was just trying to help you understand this article.

You asked a perfectly fair question though which I will answer -- here's a poll about the Americans' feelings about the war. How you ask the questions and what questions you ask and how you tee them up make a pretty significant difference to what people say, but that one seems pretty honestly organized and comprehensive, and they're transparent about what exactly they asked. 34% say the way Israel is fighting the "war" is unacceptable, 38% say it's acceptable, 26% say they're not sure.

I think that attitude is because they're profoundly confused about what is happening in Gaza because of our atrocious media, not that 38% of Americans understand that it's a genocide and want Israel to be doing that. I only summarized as "fine with genocide" because I thought they were fine with aid to Israel (which a lot of them don't understand the implications of)... I have now learned from reading this that they don't. The little four-quadrants chart shows that if you limit it to people who say "yes" or "no" about military aid to Israel, you get 64% "no." Holy shit. That's way higher than I thought.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I have absolutely no idea why you keep insisting that I like genocide (or Israel buying candidates?).

It's because, much like linkerbaan. They're here to virtue signal. They will reject obtainable but imperfect solutions and the groups involved. Harangue and attack anyone who supports it for any reason. They have no workable solutions, and won't help Palestinians in any meaningful way. But woe unto anyone who points it out.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 1 year ago

It’s worse than that, with both users - they are literally making up nonsense so they can posture as the one who is pro-Palestinian to the point of getting hostile with someone else who is also pro-Palestinian. If they were criticizing my imperfect solution that would at least make some kind of sense.

With Linkerbaan I feel like I have a strong understanding of why they are doing it. With Ensign_Crab I am totally lost as to why. I genuinely have no kind of ill will towards them in any way and they’re convinced that I am some kind of vicious pro-Israel enemy, in a way that is totally confusing to me.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ardent Biden defender claims he is supporting Palestinians

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yet you can't provided any proof of it. Childish name calling is all you've got.:-)

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Conservatives whine about virtue signaling.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Other people do too. The term existed long before they incorrectly started using it. And the fact that this is your only rebuttal. Is pretty damning.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, the only thing you want to hear is agreement with your position regarding genocide, so there is nothing I'm going to say that will satisfy you.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not at all. Mozz and I often disagree. We did in a thread above this. Even though I disagreed with their position and posted a rebuttal. I still up voted them. Because they can express their views in a mature reasonable fashion. Without resorting to name calling, strawmen, and general BS rhetorical attacks. Disagreement and debate is natural and fine. People supposedly old enough to know better acting childish, not so much.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And the old "you don't agree with me so you're a child" boomer argument.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

More name calling, seething and trying to cope. I'd ask if that was all you had. But I think that's rather obvious at this point.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Enjoy the candidates the genocidal regime bought you.

load more comments (15 replies)