this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Buddy, I just wanna vibe with the atmosphere and the scenery sometimes instead of studying the blade or whatever the fuck. It's a video game, relax.

I think this might be the disconnect. If you just vibed with the scenary there isn't much to the games. You could run through the whole game in a few hours. I think Elden Ring only has four or five required boss fights and afaik every other fight is optional and you could run past all the enemies if you want to.

Much of the game - story, characters, and lore - only comes out if you spend a lot of time getting your ass kicked. Most of the game's background comes from random item drops you'd most likely miss if you got through every fight on the first try. There's a lot of information tied up in how enemies fight - similar enemies from different factions have subtly different equipment and weild different spells. Spell mechanics tie in to story stuff.

The other thing is - it's not easy to make the game easier. Most of the fighting relies on learning enemy movesets and timing. If you make the enemies deal %5 of their normal damage you're still not going to win if you can't figure out when you have openings to land hits. You'll end up being knocked down, staggered, afflicted with statuses, and all the rest of it. You could slow down the attack animations, but they'd look goofy af and become even harder to read.

As much as people scoff these games are carefully crafted works of art. There is wiggle room to make them "easier", but only so much due to the nature of the gameplay.

Additionally, the Elden Ring does have many mechanics - coop especially, to make it much more approachable to players who have struggled with previous entries in the series. I rarely seem people who complain about people who complain about the difficulty of the game discuss or engage with these systems.

Finally, i think there's a serious disconnect in the nature of the dark souls gameplay loop. You're supposed to die a whole lot. Every time you fight thrugh an area you have a chance for drops, you gain xp, and if you're paying attention you're figuring out the best path through the area in hopes of getting further next time. That process - advancing, learning, getting xp, dying, and repeating, is the core gameplay loop. If you don't enjoy that you likely won't have fun with the game.

I think a great deal of bad faith has accumulated - many people complaining about "git gud" don't seem to actually be interested in the game, only using it as a whipping boy for complaints about games gatekeeping difficulty. But dark souls and elden ring are generally the only games in the vast sea of available games discussed in this manner. It's these particular games that are essentially their own niche genre that peopke continue to be mad about over a decade after Dark Souls, despite each subsequent game having more features to make the games accessible to more people.

[–] PaulSmackage@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago (8 children)

From my experience, the only purpose of Fromsoft games is the difficulty, because the lore is boring. Could never connect with the combat, and the story was "dark fantasy, but maybe lovecraftian????".

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's really not difficult the way people think it is, especially Elden Ring. If you want to solo the game using a very specialized build, yeah. But you can also just pick stuff you like and guard counter or turtle or magic spam through the entire game while summoning friends and being summoned to help people. You can goof off, do sub-optimal builds, try wacky stuff, and fuck around a lot. If you don't like your build re-specing in er is fairly straightforward. Idk, i think "souls games are difficult" has been built up to mythological levels to the point where people either don't try to play Elden Ring at all, or try to play, get killed by the Tree Sentinel a few times, then throw their hands up in frustration without engaging with all the systems the game gives you right from the start.

ER really has been made much friendlier and more approachable and easier to get in to than prior games. Summoning is much easier and more reliable. Re-speccing is much easier and available from relatively early in the game. Any time you're stuck at a boss you can go somewhere else and try something else.

But yeah, the combat is 99.9% of the game, so if you don't groove with it then it's not the game for you.

As for the lore - what I really like about the Dark Souls story is that it's very much about persevering in the face of adversity. It's Absurdist to it's core, and the story and game mechanics are deeply tied together. The Dark Souls world is trapped in stasis. Gwyn and his heirs, fearing the age of dark, keep linking the fire over and over again to re-boot the age of fire. And the result is that every cycle is the same, but worse. The world gets thinner and thinner. Time and space break down dragging disparate places together until they're all stacked atop the kiln of the first flame. As long as this miserable cycle persists there's no future for the workld and no hope. The misery will go on forever, the world will become more and more hollow until nothing is left but the thinnest shell and the faintest ember.

This is directly reflected in gameplay. There is no way to lose Dark Souls. The game has no fail condition. As long as you keep trying, keep bashing your head against a cruel world that hates you without seeing you, you cannot fail. Your enemies are hollow, their humanity scooped out by overwhelming despair and indifference. They fight you out of a cold, reflexive hatred of your stubbornness and determination to press on long after there's any reason to do so. This is the core of Existentialism and Absurdism; choosing to live, grow, and change after recognizing that there's no meaning in the world.

The multiplayer reflects this, too. As Miyazaki said, the cooperative summoning was inspired by a situation where strangers were helping each other get their cars un-stuck in a bad snow. They were strangers, owing each other nothing, never seeing each other again, but they chose to cooperate and aid each other in that moment.

The pvp reflects this. People will invade your world to try to harm you, but some people will leap to your aid. There's predatory violence, but also virtuous defenders. No matter how desolate and empty the world feels there are always people nearby who will lend you a hand in even the worst circumstances.

The way you learn about the story also ties in to these themes. When you first travel through the world it seems like a miserable, empty wasteland. It's only by exploring and gathering relics and rubbish from the past that you can slowly piece together what happened. You're not a great hero. The age of heroes was long ago, and you're an archeologist exploring it's wreckage. You learn about their hopes and dreams, and their inevitable fall and failure. You take up their rusted arms, polish them until they shine anew. You clean the dust from crests and sigils that long ago lost all meaning and carry them with renewed purpose. You come to empathize with gods and monsters that proved to be pathetically mortal in the end.

And you just keep going. You keep going after you get burned by the pot throwers just outside firelink, when you get crushed by the charred and burned out shells of Gwyn's silver knights, when you're invaded by sadistic killers, when you finally drag your poisoned body to the bottom of blight town and the top of the gargloy's belfry. You keep going through the death traps of Sen's fortress. You keep going when you encounter the city of the gods and it's false pretense of glory. You just keep going, through all the adversity and setbacks, because you want to keep going.

You can give up at any time. You can turn the game off. You can grow frustrated and bored. That's when the player goes hollow. There's no way to lose the game, except to turn it off.

And I connect with that very deeply because that has been my entire life. I have very severe, untreatable depression that has made more of my life miserable than not. The only reason I keep going is that I choose to keep going. Absurdism and Existentialism are the core of my ethos; there is no meaning accept what you yourself create.

Dark Souls is a deeply, achingly humanistic game. It says, very plainly, that to exist is to suffer. And it also says that there is always hope, always comradery, always beauty, amidst that suffering. The conclusion of the story, the "good ending" in Dark Souls III, isn't restoring the bourgeis status quo or installing a monarchy or defeating the minority and communist coded enemies. It's holding hands with someone who is just as scared and uncertain as you are and accepting your mortality. Two strangers watching the last rays of the last sunset, wondering what will happen next.

Elden Ring doesn't hit nearly as hard, but there's still a good story about the reckless pursuit of power, the horrors of war, agency in the face of systemic oppression, racism and intersectionality. I could go on for hours, but i need to wrap this up and hit enter.

[–] PaulSmackage@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can see this series is very important for you, almost therapeutic in a way. I see your points very clearly, and I 100% get why there's people into Dark Souls, and people into Dark Souls. It's just not a series i can jive with, personally. When the movement and combat don't feel good, which as you mentioned is basically the game on its face, yeah, i'm going to walk away. My comment was obviously not meant to be serious, but a deflection from the usual culture surrounding the series.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] PaulSmackage@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

I might give it another fair shot in the future, but having tried DS2, Bloodborne, and Sekiro, i'm not 100% sure it'll stick the landing for me.

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