this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 91 points 1 year ago (32 children)

So why can't Israel support itself after decades of the US pumping weapons and money?

I'm 100% done with Israel, and that's coming from a middle-aged guy who was always a supporter. At this point, I honestly don't care if the Arab world stomps them flat. Who could I possibly give a shit any longer?!

So thanks for bringing the plight of the Palestinians into my worldview and trashing the country's reputation. I get it now. Clearly.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev -3 points 1 year ago (21 children)

I honestly don't care if the Arab world stomps them flat.

Standard disclaimer, this isn't an attempt to excuse Biden's support for Israel which is and has been unconscionable. But that being said:

I think the possibility of Israel being stomped flat is part of the calculus that underlies American support for them. They're surrounded by powerful enemies like Iran, and a whole unanimous coalition of nations full of military and political leaders who go to sleep at night dreaming of the lifelong stamp of heroism that would stem from being part of the holy alliance that finally wiped them out.

Whatever crimes against humanity their "defense" forces commit and are committing, the TV scenes of Arab soldiers gunning down fleeing Israeli civilians, ripping down the flags in Tel Aviv amid burning corpses, taking city after city, fighting a 20-on-1 dogpile of a war that would end with Israel erased from the map forever, guilty and the innocent alike, would get played on American TV in campaign commercials for 50 years. If it happened under Biden, the Democrats wouldn't win another election for at least a generation. Probably more.

And it could happen. The world is not a nice place. Part of running the State Department is dealing in horrifying outcomes like that, and it happens every year in a few places across the globe, to people we haven't taken pains to make friends and allies of (and sometimes even to people like the Kurds that we have).

We used to love like brothers and sisters various leaders all over the world who did genocidal things like Netanyahu, and I'm sure we still do, but it's not an everyday thing now like it was in the 80s and 90s. But there's some kind of crazy disconnect that fuels American support for Israel. There's a popular theory on Lemmy that it's simply because Biden is evil and loves genocide, and certainly AIPAC is a part and simple racism and lack of care for dying civilians in the Mideast is a part, but to me I think one of the powerful drivers is the fear of what might happen if the rest of the Middle East ever got the idea that they could try to fuck up Israel and the US might not be there to make sure it didn't happen.

Let the accusations commence. Like I say, I'm trying to explain, not to excuse, and besides nothing in any of that above would have stopped them having the CIA snatch Netanyahu three months ago and deliver him to the Hague in a rubber sack with a note that says "We still love Israel but this guy can get fucked."

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

But there’s some kind of crazy disconnect that fuels American support for Israel.

Lemmy is stupid, so you shouldn't pay attention to popular lemmy theories. But you've got it wrong too.

Christians need Israel to exist in order for their prophecy to be fulfilled. That's the reason for the vast majority of the support Israel gets in the US. They don't care about Israel as a state, or Jews, or anything else. It's just a practical matter. One of the preconditions for the End Times is Israel existing.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That variety of "Christian" certainly exists in America but I don't think they are as powerful as they used to be and I don't think they are in charge of the State Department (I mean... not currently, at least.)

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

You probably only think that because you've gone out of your way to exclude them from your life. They still very much exist. They're a majority of people who care about the middle east in any way.

and I don’t think they are in charge of the State Department

Anything that popular has sway with the government.

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don't live here and aren't paying attention then...

Those are exactly the people in control of the Republican party right now and the ones Trump is promising the world to in his bid to get elected. (And become a dictator)

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hence why I said not currently

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

But the Republicans have that power NOW. They don't have complete power, but that doesn't mean they and their policies aren't affecting the US.

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