this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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I just want to join in to remind everyone that multiple things can be true at the same time.
The DNC/Biden can and should be doing better.
We only have 2 options for president. It will be one of the two main candidates because that is how the system works. Don't pretend it doesn't. You either vote for one of those two or you are ok with either.
We should be pressuring Biden to do more about both Ukraine and Gaza. Ending both conflicts and getting aid to people.
Choosing to vote for a 3rd party to protest Biden's response to Gaza/Israel is only going to help Trump in the short term. Yes, long term Biden and DNC may notice their total votes going down, but in the short term it will put Trump in the Whitehouse and now what? What did you accomplish if the DNC realizes they fucked up, but can't do anything about it because Trump is now a dictator?
Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won't compromise on anything. That isn't how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn't happen in one election cycle.
We should have been and should be campaigning and pushing for changes to our system so that we can have better options in the future. We need to push for Ranked Choice Voting (or anything better than FPTP). And voting in local level elections to make small changes across the country. Term limits. Campaign finance reforms. Etc etc. because until we get a new system we effectively can't just vote for who we want or it doesn't do anything more than a fart in a hurricane.
I see a lot of people who are saying they will not vote for Biden because the Gaza/Israel issue. Which I completely understand. But the two truths you have to accept in doing so is that you will not be complicit in the genocide. But you will be complicit if Trump wins. Both can be true. You decide which one you would rather see. If you don't want Trump then the only option is a vote for Biden. And until we reform our voting system we don't have viable 3rd parties and pretending we do is just delusional. Look at every election for the last hundred years and you will see enough proof. It's not ideal, but it is reality. **Accept it **so we can change it together.
You will be ok voting for genocide. Gotcha
I mean this in the kindest way possible:
Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn't collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don't care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let's work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I'd rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren't at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don't think that is an extreme position. I couldn't sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
The problem with putting your foot down on this issue and refusing to help prevent Trump from winning is that we are all saying that historically, in every previous election, doing that ends up getting the worse of 2 options elected.
It's like we have a burning building full of people and the only water we have is Nestle, so you stand there declaring you will not use that water and be complicit in using that product. But that is ignoring the problem of the fire. Let's put the fire out first with whatever we can use and THEN we need to be talking and fighting as hard as we can for better options later.
That's what everyone is trying to get you to see. We have a fire. Here. Now. Let's put it out. Then we can all go work on the next issue of not using toxic water.
This really is a Trolley Problem, because both main candidates lead to some amount of suffering. But refusing to pull the lever IS making the choice to let the default happen and that DOES still make you complicit just as much as pulling the lever left or right does.
We are all stuck in this and there is no ethical choice no matter what you do, so we are trying to choose the least total harm.
And again, with our voting system it's a first one across the finish line wins thing. Two candidates have tons of momentum and have gotten 90% there, side by side, all the other candidates are essentially barely off the start line. It makes no sense to try to push 3rd party now here in the final moments. You have to build that momentum WAY before now.
Here is another thing to consider. Imagine Trump or Biden in the next 4 years as president. Now also imagine we all get together and protest and campaign and demand action be taken to stop Israel. How likely is it that Trump would change his mind and help? How likely is it Biden would? To me, it sure seems like the former is a 0 and while the latter isn't great, it's above 0. Maybe there is a chance we can elect Biden and all protest and petition enough that he gets it and does something. Make it clear we demand some action to help stop the killing. But if Trump gets in there's no chance.
Lastly, I just want you to know I don't resent you for whatever choice you make. I hate the system, not you. We are stuck in a shitty system and I don't want to be fighting with you, our fight is the bigger one. Obviously you will do what you feel is right, whatever that may be. And I will too. I hope we can make things better for the future, friend.