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Nearly all of us on Earth live within a 'nation-state'. Nation-states are an invisible and seemingly inevitable and eternal part of the infrastructure that forms our society: the water we swim in. Rarely do we pause to consider how this global system of nation-states came into being, and what might replace it after its gone. But as the United States wages a war of aggression on Iran, in a move that will drive up oil prices and the cost of living for ordinary citizens all over the world, the question presents itself anew: who do nation-states serve; what are they for?
On Downstream this week is the author and essayist Rana Dasgupta, whose latest book, ‘After Nations: The Making and Unmaking of a World Order,’ tackles these questions head-on. In conversation with Aaron Bastani, they discuss: What is a nation-state? How did they come to replace the role of religion in the liberal era? Do states need their citizens to have rights? What are the most salient challenges to the nation-state today? And were the gains in workers’ rights of the last century a sign that progress and democracy will triumph in the end, or something more like a historical blip?
00:00 Intro
02:28 What Is a Nation-State?
06:51 A European Creation, Based on Exploitation
11:35 Divine Authority: King Louis IX and the Crown of Thorns in 13th Century France
19:22 Islamic Critiques of the Nation-State
25:22 Charles Maurras, and Conservative European Critiques of the State
28:50 The Parallels Between Islam and the European Far Right
33:20 The Glorious Revolution, Liberalism, and the British State
39:59 Why The 18th Century State Didn’t Need Citizens to Have Rights
43:39 Is America Devolving into an 18th Century-style State?
48:44 Could Americans Lose Their Democracy?
53:03 The New Technological Powers of 21st Century States
53:38 The Relationship Between Asia’s Rise and the West’s Fall
1:00:28 How Close Was 11th Century Song Dynasty China to an Industrial Revolution?
1:02:12 Why Did Some Countries NOT Have an Industrial Revolution?
1:04:29 America’s Use of the Nation State for Empire Building
1:11:08 Signs that the American Century is Over
1:11:47 How China Has Out-Flanked America
1:15:41 China Is Protecting Its Own Environment While Wrecking Others
1:22:06 What Comes After the Nation-State and the Failed Project of Global Liberalism?
1:30:10 The Next World Order, Ecology and the One-ness of Planetary Systems
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