I remember the 29-0 vs the Lions last year, and the 25-0 shutout against the Falcons in 2021, and even the Chargers game in 2020 we shut them out. But this year, we get shut out. When was the last time the Patriots were shut out and scored 0 points against an opponent?

Zappe did not play well today, but at this point he's better than Mac. But before demonize him to much, we need to recall just who he is and where he came from.

Bailey went to a subdivision college, Div. 1AA for you old school fans. He was picked in the fourth round as a project player. He wasn't even supposed to see the field in meaningful games his rookie year. He was a third string bench warmer that got thrust into action because of injuries to Mac & Hoyer. Patriot fans are quick to point out that although he was serviceable in a couple starts it was against bottom tier NFL defenses. Bottom tier schottom tier: 99% of the players from Conference USA will never get a look in the NFL and 75% aren't good enough for CFL or XFL. Zappe exceeded expectations just by being serviceable.

Today was his first start in second year. For a guy that's literally only had one week to prepare as a starter since midway thru last year, with a lousy O line and ineffective WRsin non stop rain he didn't do that bad. It's reasonable to wonder if he might do better with a half decent rookie that was injured this week. Did he do good? No, but he's clearly better than Mac at this point.

Week 13: Patriots vs. Chargers

Kickoff: Sunday, Dec. 3, 1:00 p.m. ET

Stadium: Gillette Stadium, Foxboro, Massachusetts

Broadcast: CBS, WBZ-TV Channel 4

Live stream: NFL+, YouTube/YouTube TV (via NFL Sunday Ticket)

Mobile: Patriots app, NFL app, SiriusXM app

Radio: 98.5 The Sports Hub, SiriusXM (New England: 225, Los Angeles: 380), Sports USA

Odds: Patriots +5.5 (via DraftKings Sportsbook)

Do you actually believe the coaches are intentionally trying to lose? If so - what would motivate them to do this? And in what ways are showing some type of intentional losing effort opposed to the team just being extremely bad.

...but at the same time, extremely obvious that he's a little better than Mac. The rain wasn't helping anyone today - Ekeler and Keenan Allen were dropping passes, which is kinda how you know it's hard to catch the ball. We were one foot being in bounds from possibly accidentally-ing ourselves into a win. He's more capable of good ball placement downfield than Mac (really high bar to clear, I know /s). Honestly, I think he's playing up to his 4th round draft value as a perfectly average backup QB. Not talented enough to start, but doesn't make bone-headed mistakes often. Zappe was under pressure all day and managed to not turn the ball over, throw it out of bounds when the play was dead, scramble for a few yards when it was there, and just make the most of a bad situation. I think he's worth keeping going forward as a backup who has flashed ability to make plays and win games when everything is right, and he's pretty cheap contract-wise.

Side note: Trent Brown, what the *hell*, man? If he's injured, my apologies for calling him out, but I have never seen a supposedly top tier offensive tackle struggle to get depth against the pass rush that much in a while.

At this point we can not go wrong with either guy or either pick especially at our draft position. I mean we clearly need to move on from Mac Jones. Bailey Zappe is not the answer either and Malik Cunningham was decent but he's not our guy either. Cue Caleb Williams or Drake Maye. But we definitely need to get Caleb or Drake some receivers next season and we definitely need to upgrade our line too to protect whoever we Draft out of the 2.

Good Morning r/Patriots

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Key dates on the 2023 NFL / Patriots calendar.

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2023 NFL roster cuts Tracker.

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New England Patriots News Link Catchup - Red zone stats surprise

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• Transaction: Patriots re-sign WR T.J. Luther to the practice squad.
• Mike Dussault’s Frankfurt Primer: Patriots content plans packed Week in Germany.
• Paul Perillo’s NFL Notes: Midseason awards are in.
• Press Conferences: Bill O’Brien - Cam Achord - Steve Belichick - Vinnie Sunseri - Mike Pellegrino - Brian Belichick - Ross Douglas - Will Lawing - Troy Brown - Jerod Mayo.
• Andy Hart gives us the latest Pats Stats Check-In: At least they’re good in the red zone!
• Doug Kyed looks at what’s next for WR Tyquan Thornton after being benched in Week 9. Bill O’Brien: “Look, he hasn’t played a lot of football because of injury, so when you don’t play a lot of football, it’s hard. He’s got to continue to work, and he will.”
• Michael Hurley suggests the Patriots problem at receiver goes deeper than Tyquan Thornton.
• Nick O’Malley highlights Patriots WR coach Troy Brown taking the blame for how his receivers are struggling and leaving plays on the field that could have swung the game.
• Michael Hurley reports Patriots OL coach Adrian Klemm missed his scheduled session with reporters on Tuesday, and he’ll be taking some time away from the job due to a health matter.
• Nick O’Malley highlights CB coach Mike Pellegrino on reported playing time drama, “I feel like the narrative’s a little messed up. Like, what did Sean do to really earn that? Everyone’s trying to make it about those two.”
• Mike D’Abate (Patriots Country) Week 9 Notebook: Another Mac Jones final, fatal drive.
• Jonathan Alfano (Patriots Country) Patriots reveal travel plans for Germany.
• Tom E. Curran discusses how Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick can keep things afloat for the final two months.
• Darren Hartwell relays 98.5 The Sports Hub guest Mike Reiss laying out what a Patriots reset could look like post-Bill Belichick.
• Mike Kadlick notes comedian Bill Burr, a Massachusetts native, tells those calling for Belichick’s job to ‘relax’.
• Mike Kadlick’s Patriots Mailbag: Could Bill Belichick actually be traded this offseason?
• Karen Guregian hears from Super Bowl-winning RB Shane Vereen, now a Pac-12 analyst, who breaks down four of the top QB prospects in the 2024 draft.
• Michael Hurley picks up on a short shot taken by Tom Brady to Julian Edelman. Brady met NBA rookie Victor Wembanyama and felt what it was like having to look up at someone.

Even if you want to blame Pop Douglas for not blocking the blitzer on the second Mac pick, he still has an open Juju he should’ve been looking at anyway. This pick shocked me in the game, but was much worse when I broke down the film earlier. The blame really cannot be on the coaching and receivers at this point. Shoutout to Billy O for trying to not throw Mac under the bus for this pick, but it was definitely on Mac; hence him not starting.

Even when the play call should work, he makes the poor choices. I know that on this play people will say that Douglas should’ve picked up the blitzer, but that doesn’t help Mac’s case. He should still hit Juju who is open on the perfect play call to beat the boundary blitz. This is a routine play decent QB’s make weekly. I keep hearing that the talent isn’t there or that it’s someone else’s fault, but the errors are mostly on Mac at this point which is why he’ll be taking a seat to hopefully regroup and figure out what’s going on because I would like to see him succeed, even if it’s for another team.

There seems to be a sentiment among the Patriots Defense that the Offense isn't pulling their weight. This is absolutely true but statistically there is one statistic the Defense can't be proud about. Courtesy of https://rbsdm.com/stats/stats/ when I look at their Defensive EPA (rolling 6-week average) for 3rd Downs in 3rd, 4th and OT periods, the Patriots are dead last. They are unable to get off the field on the 3rd Downs. The EPA is filtered for 3rd and 4th quarter so maybe they're fatigued given the Offense hasn't been able to sustain long drives. Thoughts?

https://preview.redd.it/26hjqp1usk3c1.jpg?width=2142&amp%3Bformat=pjpg&amp%3Bauto=webp&amp%3Bs=3e511624275984dcb6d821d8a3c971f2dcf1dcc5

Brady would’ve had 4 rings been 4-0 at the time with a 14-1 playoff record and this one would’ve been most impressive with the cast off receivers we had going against that bears defense . Plus beating MVP LT and Peyton on the road would’ve basically had him immortalized .

But knowing what we know about Belichick the GM, would he have been so inclined to give Brady these weapons in 2007 or would he have let Brady try to figure it out all over again in 2006 knowing what he did hypothetically the year prior?

I still think we go all in

The clock has struck midnight and last year’s Patricia Pitchfork Pals have turned promptly into Bill Belichick Bouncers. I haven’t seen a single post with that same old Matty P vitriol for Bill O’Brien. To the folks posting all offseason about how Patricia should be keelhauled, how do you feel about Bill O’Brien?

Has anyone changed their mind on Patricia?

Genuinely interested to see if this year’s perspective has softened anyone’s feelings on his contributions to the pats over the years. FTJ

Good Morning r/Patriots

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Free place to chat and a good place to discuss whatever you like with other sub users

__

Key dates on the 2023 NFL / Patriots calendar.

__

2023 NFL roster cuts Tracker.

__

New England Patriots News Link Catchup - Red zone stats surprise

​

• Transaction: Patriots re-sign WR T.J. Luther to the practice squad.
• Mike Dussault’s Frankfurt Primer: Patriots content plans packed Week in Germany.
• Paul Perillo’s NFL Notes: Midseason awards are in.
• Press Conferences: Bill O’Brien - Cam Achord - Steve Belichick - Vinnie Sunseri - Mike Pellegrino - Brian Belichick - Ross Douglas - Will Lawing - Troy Brown - Jerod Mayo.
• Andy Hart gives us the latest Pats Stats Check-In: At least they’re good in the red zone!
• Doug Kyed looks at what’s next for WR Tyquan Thornton after being benched in Week 9. Bill O’Brien: “Look, he hasn’t played a lot of football because of injury, so when you don’t play a lot of football, it’s hard. He’s got to continue to work, and he will.”
• Michael Hurley suggests the Patriots problem at receiver goes deeper than Tyquan Thornton.
• Nick O’Malley highlights Patriots WR coach Troy Brown taking the blame for how his receivers are struggling and leaving plays on the field that could have swung the game.
• Michael Hurley reports Patriots OL coach Adrian Klemm missed his scheduled session with reporters on Tuesday, and he’ll be taking some time away from the job due to a health matter.
• Nick O’Malley highlights CB coach Mike Pellegrino on reported playing time drama, “I feel like the narrative’s a little messed up. Like, what did Sean do to really earn that? Everyone’s trying to make it about those two.”
• Mike D’Abate (Patriots Country) Week 9 Notebook: Another Mac Jones final, fatal drive.
• Jonathan Alfano (Patriots Country) Patriots reveal travel plans for Germany.
• Tom E. Curran discusses how Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick can keep things afloat for the final two months.
• Darren Hartwell relays 98.5 The Sports Hub guest Mike Reiss laying out what a Patriots reset could look like post-Bill Belichick.
• Mike Kadlick notes comedian Bill Burr, a Massachusetts native, tells those calling for Belichick’s job to ‘relax’.
• Mike Kadlick’s Patriots Mailbag: Could Bill Belichick actually be traded this offseason?
• Karen Guregian hears from Super Bowl-winning RB Shane Vereen, now a Pac-12 analyst, who breaks down four of the top QB prospects in the 2024 draft.
• Michael Hurley picks up on a short shot taken by Tom Brady to Julian Edelman. Brady met NBA rookie Victor Wembanyama and felt what it was like having to look up at someone.

So I just looked at the box scores of all of the Patriots 07 games and the numbers were just absurd. This raises the question what was the flaws with this team if any? And if there was a flaw did it affect them in the Super Bowl against the giants. It also made me wonder if going 16-0 hurt them in terms of identifying potential weaknesses going into the playoffs. I’m not a pats fan and was really young in 07 so I’m just curious how they could’ve possibly lost. Thanks for any feedback!

Then I just don't understand then...if we have a dual threat in Malik Cunningham, then why isn't Bill starting him? Or at the very least giving him reps?

We should be able to at least see what we have in him and if he is better than both Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe, then we don't even necessarily have to go QB with our 2024 1st round pick.

Ryland told Bill after the game this week that he’d never do that again. He’d never intentionally miss again. He doesn’t believe in tanking and he wants to be remembered as a good kicker. He won’t miss anymore kicks on purpose.

And Bill looked him in the eyes and said, “Fine. We’ll find someone who will.”

Owner: First question Bill. Specifically, why didn’t you play Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl against the Eagles?

BB: Hmmm, yeah. We uh, put in the guys we uh, thought gave us the best chance to win the game. We’ve got to play better.

Owner: Well I’ve got no more questions. Thanks for coming in.

Too bad for Bill, Snyder is out of the league.